What would you purchase? A television for $100 or the same television (except a different brand) for $120?

Depends...if the $100 one was an Apex, and the $120 one was a Magnavox, I'd choose the latter everytime, assuming I had the money for it.

I know this may be too much common sense but.....

Why can't the minimum wage be adjusted annually for inflation? Then at least your minimum wage workers are not making less each year in current value dollars....it would be a good first compromise between "people should make as little as possible so that companies can profit as much as possible" and "people need to make X dollars/hour in order to survive with a family of four and bring down the economy."

to Dr. Guy or to people who don't want a hike to the minimum wage:

do you propose eliminating the minimum wage? that would let market forces force wages back to their "real" level. if you don't, please explain why people should be forced to pay the 'closer to a living wage but not really' when you so artfully showed enforced wage levels are bad.

That's it? That's the scenario? Uhh...fine the $100 one. But maybe these don't make sense to me since I'm not much of a good American consumer, I don't buy a lot of useless shit. When I buy something I want to make sure it's quality and that I won't have to worry about it failing my purpose for buying it. Yes, I've purchased foreign made bikes because they were better quality than equivalent US made bikes, but I bought them from small businesses where I could've gotten them cheaper elsewhere. Hypothetical situation or not I don't think you can win this one with me, just about any situation you can come up with I could fathom other important factors that would go beyond my decision making based simply on price.

I don't see where I mentioned they differ in quality. I guess being more expensive always does mean better quality though. Therefore, I support the living wage.

Of course, even if they were the same quality, I'm sure there's another reason why the analogy wouldn't work (oh, but say my uncle works at the company that makes the $120 one and if I buy this TV he'll get a raise).

Loaded questions. The real questions should be started with the default: "Are you a consumerist?" And, "What pay bracket are you in?" I see the direction you are pointing the gun, but sometimes you have to remember some of us don't use those 'guns'. Be careful about who you categorize. I'll be you shop at Wal-Mart and eat at McDonald's, too.

Reply By: rugbyshawnPosted: Thursday, September 30, 2004I know this may be too much common sense but.....Why can't the minimum wage be adjusted annually for inflation?

Hey you, pack up your common sense and get the hell outta here...can't you see we're talking about politics? Err, uhh, what I meant to say was...sounds goot to me.

(oh, but say my uncle works at the company that makes the $120 one and if I buy this TV he'll get a raise).

I know you're joking...but yeah, that would be a factor. I'm sorry, really, cause I know what you're getting at. But I buy so much stuff used and I'm all about getting a hooked up with a deal. I've traded snowboards for stereos and love going to garage sales and coming home with a coffee table for $8. I can't remeber the last time I was at the mall, and if I ever buy anything it's on clearance 95% of the time......so yahoo for capitalism.

I tried to answer it straight up....yes, I'd buy the cheaper one if purchases like this took place in an ethical vaccuum where no other factors matter....but they always do.

And I hope you're not really suggesting that higher prices always mean better quality. Sounds like someone who drives a lexus with the exact same engine as my better reselling value Camry and carries a Prada bag around with them while drinking Krystal (sp?).

You are forgetting a large percentage of the population by leaving out service jobs. It seems we are adding more service jobs to our economy and sending the higher paid jobs overseas. Don't service jobs that do not require tipping deserve a rate of pay that doesn't require 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet? My own boss doesn't seem to think so. I have been without a raise for over 4 years. I may be slightly handicapped but that does not mean that I should not be paid for my work at a fair rate. Finding another job is just about impossible due to my handicap, which by the way was caused by another job that proceeded to fire me for missing work due to getting injured at that job. That is my own tough luck and because of that injury I find it very difficult to do every day things such as sit and stand. Bending over or picking up any real weight is an agony. But hey that is my story

Finding another job is just about impossible due to my handicap, which by the way was caused by another job that proceeded to fire me for missing work due to getting injured at that job.

It's a shame there aren't programs out there to help workers be compensated for on-the-job injuries.
Also, I wonder if your boss would increase your wage if he were forced to or lay you off. I mean, it's just me, but if I had to choose between a huge profit loss because of living wages and consolidating my workforce, I think I'd choose the latter.

#1 Neither, I cut my own yard.
#2 C - cut it myself
#3 I buy the cheaper pair of equal quality



More than 80 studies have shown a link between an increase in minimum wage and job loss, particularly among the workers with the least skills, experience and education. The more employers are forced to pay, the less likely they are to hire, or keep, those types of workers. Instead employers are more likely to hire more qualified workers, in order to get a better return on their money.

There are probably just as many studies connecting low wages to dependency on public funds and services...something has got to give. I still am so miffed that no one is willing to budge at all on this issue. I know I have. I used to think we should all get a living wage but that's unrealistic. We could tailor fit a living wage program to benefit those that truly needed it. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other.

Suspeckted

I doubt that anyone who is against raising the minimum wage doesn't want low income workers to make enough money to live on. The difference of opinion is in method; how to do it. Typically, the left portrays those against raising the minimum wage as being against low income workers making more money. That is not true.

I, for one, feel that raising the minimum wage is not a good solution because it ultimately hurts not only the people it was meant to help, but a lot of other people as well. There are ways to improve low income wages without imposing a poor solution. And arguing against a poor solution is not the same as arguing against any solution, despite the attempts by the left to paint it as such.

Demonizing those who disagree isn't conducive to finding a solution that actually helps everyone.

"Why can't the minimum wage be adjusted annually for inflation?" How much money are you willing to spend?

Obviously the answer to your question is the annual inflation percentage. That way the bottom wages don't go down in current dollar values. It's not a neverending cycle as you suggest. In fact, the raise in wages would occur once a year (which is incidentally the definition of annual) based on the inflation rate for that year.

Helix, what do you have against people making a minimum wage that keeps up with price increases that occur within this country? If you are working the same job from one year to the next, would you not be disappointed that you can purchase less food, rent etc because while you make the same amount, the cost of everything around you has increased?

There are states who have minimum wages higher than the federal government and I don't see them spiraling out of control due to inflation....
Link to the department of labor stats....Link

As is we're paying 10x the amount for the same type of things than our grandparents did. I still hear about the nickle store.

Yes and our grandparents paid more than their grandparents did...I'm sure they heard about the penny stores back then and how it was ridiculous that milk cost a quarter...but they made more than their grandparents did as a country just as we make more than our grandparents did as a country (disregarding the recent setbacks).

Yes and our grandparents paid more than their grandparents did...I'm sure they heard about the penny stores back then and how it was ridiculous that milk cost a quarter...but they made more than their grandparents did as a country just as we make more than our grandparents did as a country (disregarding the recent setbacks).

Actually, I did some comparisons with my father once and was astonished at how much real wages vs. real cost of living has changed over the years; many workers make FAR LESS than their parents did against the cost of living (I consider "real" cost of living to be cost of essentials, basically).

This article (from the Detroit Free Press) backs your assertion, Gideon, with salary/wage numbers from the IRS and Census bureau included....

Link

This article from Bloomberg is from May but it shows how corporate profits from 2001-2003 soared based on Commerce Department numbers.
Link

But my favorite part....
This article mentions that while workers wages have been sluggish...
"CEO pay, which in 1980 was 40 times larger than that of the average worker, grew to be 400 times to 550 times bigger by 2000," William McDonough, chairman of the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, said in an April speech at the Committee for Economic Development in Washington.

``I knew a lot of CEOs in 1980, and I can assure you the CEOs of 2000 were not 10 times better,'' McDonough said. He called the rise in executive pay ``grotesquely immoral.''

I think I see where companies who really want to cut costs could save a lot of money!!!!!

The funny thing is here... check this out. If living wage happens then we all pay more at the store. That is the botom line. Deciding to 'buy American' wil not help you if 'buying American' costs you 75% more. Spending a little bit more on American goods you say? Don't believe yourself because at the end of the day you'll wonder where it all went and the very next week you get the same quality brand for less and it won't be American made or produced.

Face it, your feeding your children and paying X amount but can pay Y amount for the same quality. You want to save for school, vacation, health... you will cheat on your "buy American". And on top of that, you know that some companies will take advantage of that and make poor quality products because "you'll buy it anyway."

What really needs to happen is that workers need to feel that I can start off at 5.25 an hour but a few years later earn 10.00 an hour. The reality is that you can work hard and be the best and still, years later, get 5.25 an hour, no benifits and no future.

THAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM