Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on December 6, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I recently came across a remark that accused Catholics of Worshiping the Statue of Mary.  And before my brain engaged to stop my fingers from flying, I blasted that remark.  And yes, I acted in haste and repent in leisure.  So first, I would like to apologize to the target of my wrath.  I should not have posted that reply.

But it also gave me my third article in my series.  Praying to statues.  Or as some think, praying to someone other than God and Jesus.  Catholics do neither.

The statues we see in most Catholic churches are a part of a tradition started in the middle ages when Artisans, for want of a meal ticket, often worked for the Church.  So Michaelangelo painted the Sistine chapel, created the statue of David, along with many other works.  Because the Church paid.  And that tradition has been handed down through the centuries as other churches wanted some of the beautiful works in their buildings (or on their buildings) as well.  Today, many churches have no statues at all.  And those that do, the statues are there for decorations, pertaining to the religion.  They are not worshiped.  They are adored, both for their art sake, and for who they represent.  But no knowledgeable Catholic worships them! (As I have stated before, many Catholics dont even know about their own religion - so some may actually worship them).

But do we pray to them - what they represent?  Do we pray to Mary, the Mother of Jesus?  Do we pray to the Saints? I guess that is the bigger misconception.

Catholics do not pray to the saints or Mary or any other revered figure in the Church.  What we do practice is to ask that Mary or a saint or saints pray for us.  For the thought is that many voices are louder than one (remember "It's a Wonderful Life"? The opening scene where everyone is praying for George Bailey?).  And in that, we do ask for their intercession for our prayers.

And indeed that is not unique to Catholicism. For almost every Christian denomination has a request for prayers for other people.  So everyone does it.  But one of the key differences is that Catholics not only ask the living to pray for us, but also those who have died.  And that may (or may not) be unique.

Someone, and I forget who, said they would rather ask the living to pray for them, not the dead.  And that is fine.  But let me pose a question.  If you are a true Christian, then you must believe that when you die, your soul does not die, and if you have lead a good and holy life, your soul ascends to heaven.  So you are in God's home then, right?  And you are truly not dead, but have life everlasting, right?

So why would you not ask those you know to be in heaven to pray for you?  Makes sense that God is more likely to listen to one who is with him than for one who may or may not be a good person (you never know about the living).

But how do we KNOW that a person is in heaven?  I am sure we have all buried a relative or friend and hope they are in heaven.  Maybe we even know it with all our heart.  For Catholics it is easy to know who is in Heaven.  Not all of those in heaven, or course!  But we do have an impressive list of names to call upon for we know they are in Heaven.  For every Saint, and yes, Mary the Mother of Jesus is one (although we dont call  her Saint Mary usually), are in Heaven!  Now many people who have never been beatified, are undoubtedly in Heaven as well.  I know my Grandmother is.  But she will never be made a saint (just not famous enough as it is a very long process).

So I could just as easily ask my Grandmother to pray for me, as I can Saint Jude, or Joseph.  And some do that very thing (as I am sure many other Christians ask their beloved relatives to pray for them). But more often, we ask the known saints to pray for us, adding to our prayers in the hopes that they will add their voice to ours and create a Cacophony like that one heard in the opening scene of It's a Wonderful Life.

That is really all there is to it.  No great mystery, no violation of the first amendment.  Just asking others, living and ascended, to add their voices to ours so that our prayers carry greater weight.

Really simple when you understand it.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 06, 2005
I have been Catholic all my life and never heard a better description of why we offer our prayers to the saints, or more that we ask them to pray for us.

Great article
on Dec 06, 2005

I have been Catholic all my life and never heard a better description of why we offer our prayers to the saints, or more that we ask them to pray for us.

Thank you.  I enjoy writing these, not to try to convert anyone, but so that those who do not understand about Catholicism and grew up with some of the wrong stereotypes, can either understand it, or hate it for the right reason!

on Dec 06, 2005
hate it


This is something that I have never really understood. I have a relative that is Baptist and she regularly tells me I am going to hell for being Catholic. I am not even a practicing Catholic. I don't hate other religions. My beliefs are simply different.
on Dec 06, 2005

I have a relative that is Baptist and she regularly tells me I am going to hell for being Catholic.

I think most of it is due to the misconceptions.  If you saw a group of Christians (and you were very religious), who worshipped idols and thought their leader was perfect, you would probably think they were nut cases too!

on Dec 06, 2005
Have you ever read Luke 16 about the rich man and the begger?
on Dec 06, 2005
think most of it is due to the misconceptions. If you saw a group of Christians (and you were very religious), who worshipped idols and thought their leader was perfect, you would probably think they were nut cases too!


yup, you got that right..........in a NUTSHELL!!!

Have you ever read Luke 16 about the rich man and the begger? It's one of the best pictures we have of after life goings on from two different perspectives in scripture. One in hell and the other in heaven. Pretty interesting.
on Dec 06, 2005
Warning for jj...ignoramous entering the conversation...you may want to cover your eyes.

I don't know if your comment is directed towards me or not. ~shrugs~ *IF* it is, I don't recall saying anything about Catholics praying TO statues. I recall asking why the virgin Mary is so important to Catholics. If that makes me *ignorant* for asking a simple question, then so be it. I didn't know, so I asked.

I was under the obviously misguided assumption that Catholics prayed THROUGH the VM to get to Jesus/God. I've always believed that Jesus is the intercessor, not a saint or Mary, but of course, I come from a Protestant POV.

If you are a true Christian, then you must believe that when you die, your soul does not die, and if you have lead a good and holy life, your soul ascends to heaven.


I believe that if I choose to believe in Christ, and what He has done, that that faith changes my life, and makes me WANT to lead a good and holy life. I could be Hitler, or, and even more realistic case, Jeffrey Dahmer, who both did horrific things, and choose to have that faith in Christ, and I would still go to Heaven. I could be a fucktard for life, and on my death bed turn it all around, and still go to heaven. (Sorry...a little off topic).

So you are in God's home then, right? And you are truly not dead, but have life everlasting, right?


Yes. But I don't think that people up there are concerned with talking to God on our behalves. I think they're busy worshipping and praising, and not giving a rat's behind what happens down here. If souls in Heaven truly knew what happened down here, it wouldn't be Heaven for them. ~shrugs~ I don't understand the Catholic "sainting" system either.

I'm a dummy. I believe in a direct relationship with God. I don't believe I need a big, beautiful church with lots of pretty things to have that relationship. I believe the Bible says what it means and means what it says. I don't know alot about Catholocism because I don't have to, nor do I have the time right now to study it. My "version" of Christianity has been what I've needed. I see Catholocism as being complex, with lots of "extracurricular" standards and rules that I don't understand. That being said, I know that the Catholic faith touches more lives than any other sect out there, and that the Catholic faith does MUCH for people in need all around the world. I might not fully understand it, but I do respect it, for the most part.


on Dec 06, 2005

Have you ever read Luke 16 about the rich man and the begger?

yes.  I dont see how that relates, but then I am not a Biblical scholar.

on Dec 06, 2005

yup, you got that right..........in a NUTSHELL!!!

coming from you, that is indeed high praise!  Thank you!

on Dec 06, 2005

Warning for jj...fucktard entering the conversation...you may want to cover your eyes.

Please. leave the vulgarity on other blogs.  This is a discussion and not an accusation.

on Dec 06, 2005

don't know if your comment is directed towards me or not. ~shrugs~ *IF* it is, I don't recall saying anything about Catholics praying TO statues. I recall asking why the virgin Mary is so important to Catholics. If that makes me *ignorant* for asking a simple question, then so be it. I didn't know, so I asked.

Since you came, I will appologize formally.  I am sorry for my snap response.  You deserve better.

You did say it, and then an either or.  This is in response to your question.  Ignorance is not asking a question.  This is not the place for slurs.  Trust me.

on Dec 06, 2005
Since you came, I will appologize formally. I am sorry for my snap response. You deserve better.


Thanks for the apology. I still eat small children though.

Please. leave the vulgarity on other blogs. This is a discussion and not an accusation.


I apologize. Please feel free to remove it...or...wait...I will...because you can't.
on Dec 06, 2005
This was the direct quote:
.I don't know why that means that Catholics have to pray to her or through her or whatever.


I didn't say anything about statues.

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.

Amen.


See...to me...that is praying TO her asking her to pray FOR us. I don't get it. I never will get it. I think that Catholocism and my neurons are like oil and water.
on Dec 06, 2005

My "version" of Christianity has been what I've needed. I see Catholocism as being complex, with lots of "extracurricular" standards and rules that I don't understand.

And that is fine.  I am not here to convert you.  I am here to explain tha tthe 'extracurricular' is just that.  SOme like it, some dont.  I dont.  And if you have read my series you will see that while it is nice, it is not necessary,

I'm a dummy. I believe in a direct relationship with God. I don't believe I need a big, beautiful church with lots of pretty things to have that relationship

As do Catholics!  What have I said that makes you think we do not?  That we ask for help?  Have you not just recently asked for our prayers for a friend?  Is that not interfering with your direct relationship?  Please, Jesus does not tolerate pharisees, and if you are going to differentiate between you request for prayers and a Catholics request for intercession, what does that make you?  So we should abort our prayers to God because you asked for them?

 

Yes. But I don't think that people up there are concerned with talking to God on our behalves

Then perhaps you presume too much.  Should I presume to talk for you or your relatives?  Perhaps you need to stop being so myopic and start just listening to the message, not the medium.  I am sorry that you are so anti Catholic, especially since your stated religion is more Carholic now than the Catholics.

This is not a convert article.  It is "splain it lucy' One.  Perhaps since you are so antagonistic and defensive, it is you that needs to examine your beliefs.  I am just "splaining' mine.

on Dec 06, 2005

I apologize. Please feel free to remove it...or...wait...I will...because you can't.

No, I dont like to delete comments unless they are from anon trolls.  I will if you really want me to however.  But that is your call.

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