Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on December 6, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I recently came across a remark that accused Catholics of Worshiping the Statue of Mary.  And before my brain engaged to stop my fingers from flying, I blasted that remark.  And yes, I acted in haste and repent in leisure.  So first, I would like to apologize to the target of my wrath.  I should not have posted that reply.

But it also gave me my third article in my series.  Praying to statues.  Or as some think, praying to someone other than God and Jesus.  Catholics do neither.

The statues we see in most Catholic churches are a part of a tradition started in the middle ages when Artisans, for want of a meal ticket, often worked for the Church.  So Michaelangelo painted the Sistine chapel, created the statue of David, along with many other works.  Because the Church paid.  And that tradition has been handed down through the centuries as other churches wanted some of the beautiful works in their buildings (or on their buildings) as well.  Today, many churches have no statues at all.  And those that do, the statues are there for decorations, pertaining to the religion.  They are not worshiped.  They are adored, both for their art sake, and for who they represent.  But no knowledgeable Catholic worships them! (As I have stated before, many Catholics dont even know about their own religion - so some may actually worship them).

But do we pray to them - what they represent?  Do we pray to Mary, the Mother of Jesus?  Do we pray to the Saints? I guess that is the bigger misconception.

Catholics do not pray to the saints or Mary or any other revered figure in the Church.  What we do practice is to ask that Mary or a saint or saints pray for us.  For the thought is that many voices are louder than one (remember "It's a Wonderful Life"? The opening scene where everyone is praying for George Bailey?).  And in that, we do ask for their intercession for our prayers.

And indeed that is not unique to Catholicism. For almost every Christian denomination has a request for prayers for other people.  So everyone does it.  But one of the key differences is that Catholics not only ask the living to pray for us, but also those who have died.  And that may (or may not) be unique.

Someone, and I forget who, said they would rather ask the living to pray for them, not the dead.  And that is fine.  But let me pose a question.  If you are a true Christian, then you must believe that when you die, your soul does not die, and if you have lead a good and holy life, your soul ascends to heaven.  So you are in God's home then, right?  And you are truly not dead, but have life everlasting, right?

So why would you not ask those you know to be in heaven to pray for you?  Makes sense that God is more likely to listen to one who is with him than for one who may or may not be a good person (you never know about the living).

But how do we KNOW that a person is in heaven?  I am sure we have all buried a relative or friend and hope they are in heaven.  Maybe we even know it with all our heart.  For Catholics it is easy to know who is in Heaven.  Not all of those in heaven, or course!  But we do have an impressive list of names to call upon for we know they are in Heaven.  For every Saint, and yes, Mary the Mother of Jesus is one (although we dont call  her Saint Mary usually), are in Heaven!  Now many people who have never been beatified, are undoubtedly in Heaven as well.  I know my Grandmother is.  But she will never be made a saint (just not famous enough as it is a very long process).

So I could just as easily ask my Grandmother to pray for me, as I can Saint Jude, or Joseph.  And some do that very thing (as I am sure many other Christians ask their beloved relatives to pray for them). But more often, we ask the known saints to pray for us, adding to our prayers in the hopes that they will add their voice to ours and create a Cacophony like that one heard in the opening scene of It's a Wonderful Life.

That is really all there is to it.  No great mystery, no violation of the first amendment.  Just asking others, living and ascended, to add their voices to ours so that our prayers carry greater weight.

Really simple when you understand it.


Comments (Page 6)
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on Dec 11, 2005

On this I'll have to agree with you. Although I don't know if its a paranoia fest as much as it is an "I'm right, you're wrong, UP YOURS!" fest.

Perhaps you need to read more clearly.  I stated the facts, we can argue them.  But we are not going to convert anyone.  At least not here.

on Dec 11, 2005

nope...just had my eyes opened after I left the Catholic church. You think Im attacking the Catholic church...I just make points from my perspective.

You do not look good in drag.

on Dec 11, 2005
Perhaps you need to read more clearly. I stated the facts, we can argue them. But we are not going to convert anyone. At least not here.


Ummm...no, DG. Are you okay? Because this is not like you at all. I think you're being a jerk about lots of things on this thread. And others recently. Maybe it's having a new teenager in the house or something? I have no idea. Lets see...

Please, Jesus does not tolerate pharisees, and if you are going to differentiate between you request for prayers and a Catholics request for intercession, what does that make you?


Then perhaps you presume too much. Should I presume to talk for you or your relatives? Perhaps you need to stop being so myopic and start just listening to the message, not the medium. I am sorry that you are so anti Catholic, especially since your stated religion is more Carholic now than the Catholics.


This is not a convert article. It is "splain it lucy' One. Perhaps since you are so antagonistic and defensive, it is you that needs to examine your beliefs. I am just "splaining' mine.


Your think alouds are always welcome. Just make sure they are thinks.


I was explaining MY view...what *I* believe, and you jump to the conclusion that I'm "anti-Catholic, antagonistic, and defensive." I said nothing that was disrespectful. I said nothing to the effect of "Catholics suck!" I just don't agree. And in your book that means that I am a lesser being. I think it's bull.

I can say you are illiterate!


Yup. Just plain old rude.

Frankly, I don't want to even listen to what you have to say anymore about Catholocism because you've brushed aside my viewpoints and honest, RESPECTFUL questions. I've said nothing even remotely against Catholocism, or anything that could even be construed as such. You can take your apology. I don't think I want it.
on Dec 11, 2005
scuse me children....ahem........but let's not fight ok?

There is lots of room for discussion here and it's all very interesting but let's not fight over it. We just need to dig thru all they layers and find out what the truth is. The question we need to ask of course.....do we want the truth or do we just want to be right? I for one am a truth seeker and I'd love for you all to be also. Our opinions really don't mean a thing.......we are here on earth for what purpose? I don't think it's to glorify ourselves..... it's not about us.....it's all about HIM.

And Doc.....sorry but haveta say....are you ok? Agree with Marcie here....you seem a bit off game............a bit more edgy than usual.

Tomorrow's another day.......

on Dec 11, 2005
There is lots of room for discussion here and it's all very interesting but let's not fight over it. We just need to dig thru all they layers and find out what the truth is. The question we need to ask of course.....do we want the truth or do we just want to be right? I for one am a truth seeker and I'd love for you all to be also. Our opinions really don't mean a thing.......we are here on earth for what purpose? I don't think it's to glorify ourselves..... it's not about us.....it's all about HIM.


The issue is that HIS truth and MY truth, or anyone's truth, is never going to be the SAME truth. And that's all fine and dandy. But NO one deserves to be treated like an imbecile when respectfully discussing our respective truths. Jesus wouldn't want that, either.
on Dec 12, 2005
You are supposedly clearing up misconceptions, then you snub people and call them "poor observers" when they ask questions. I'm not a poor observer, and if you think so, then, well, you're a poor observer.

Doesn't seem to be much in the way of clarification, more like a pissing contest. I thought I was being reasonable. Sorry.
on Dec 12, 2005

Reply By: BakerStreet

Reply By: Marcie Helen

Baker and Marcie. Let me appologize for my mood.  It had nothing to do with either of you, and I guess I did come off harsh in some of my responses.  But I do not tolerate fools well, and yes, Ziggy is a fool when it comes to this subject.  But in my reaction to him, you got caught in the crossfire.  For that I do appologize.

on Dec 12, 2005
lol...Ziggy was a Catholic for many many years! He was an ALTAR BOY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! His whole family is Catholic and I think he understands the Catholic church very well.

It's HIS perspective, DG...HIS. He doesn't intend for it to be antagonistic or "anti Catholic"--he's just saying that this is what he's experienced in his life with his faith. He didn't say that "Catholics are stupid!" He's saying that he doesn't see the logic in some Catholic doctrine. He's not attacking YOU or anyone else.

I don't agree with some of the stuff *I* know about the Catholic church. But that doesn't mean I hate it or I hate Catholics. It simply means that I don't agree. I have a load of respect for Catholics and the Catholic church, and so does Z.
on Dec 12, 2005

I don't agree with some of the stuff *I* know about the Catholic church. But that doesn't mean I hate it or I hate Catholics. It simply means that I don't agree. I have a load of respect for Catholics and the Catholic church, and so does Z.

That is the beauty of religion.  There is a different flavor for just about any taste.  I dont expect to convert anyone, but education is never bad when some of the misconceptions can at least be cleared up.  That I can at least explain some of them so they do not appear to be idol worship, or "infallible" is all I seek.

on Dec 12, 2005
That is the beauty of religion. There is a different flavor for just about any taste. I dont expect to convert anyone, but education is never bad when some of the misconceptions can at least be cleared up. That I can at least explain some of them so they do not appear to be idol worship, or "infallible" is all I seek.


And that's understandable. I wish someone could give me a little personal perspective of the mormon church, the jehovah's witness church, etc. I never got the feeling that you were trying to convert people. Education is fine, but calling people "illiterate," "pharisees," etc. is not the way to go about educating people about a touchy subject like religion. It turns them away versus welcoming them in...and isn't welcoming what ANY sect of Christianity wants to accomplish?
on Dec 12, 2005
But I do not tolerate fools well, and yes, Ziggy is a fool when it comes to this subject.


Well hmm, Im positive I replied to this this morning...
on Dec 12, 2005

Education is fine, but calling people "illiterate," "pharisees," etc. is not the way to go about educating people about a touchy subject like religion

Actually, I dont think I called anyone a pharisee.  ANd I do/did appologize for the other comments I did make.  They were made in anger, and should not have been made.

on Dec 13, 2005
I am a transplanted 50's something (Michigan ) catholic farm boy that grew up proudly having three (3) priests in the family. I am saddened to say some years back all left their collar's on alters for different reasons.

Don't ever recall praying to a statue regardless of who, just doesn't feel right. Can't say I ever knew the actual biblical reasons other then to say I pray to God.

You shared some eloquent thoughts which I am proud to say I agree with. Also, it's impressive to read someone's apology, even when I have no idea what caused you to do what's right!
on Dec 13, 2005
You shared some eloquent thoughts which I am proud to say I agree with. Also, it's impressive to read someone's apology, even when I have no idea what caused you to do what's right!


Thank you! 3 priests? WOW! I only had one nun (she died a few years ago - my Grandfather's sister) in my family. My Cousin was almost one! But he fell in love and has 3 children now! Which I am glad he did before he went to seminary!
on Feb 18, 2006
This article is exactly what it states to be. A misconception or more properly stated a deception. What does the Word the Bible scripture say? What do the commandments read.....
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