Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on November 2, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I am putting this under religion because lately there has been a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism.

Now I will be the first to say that I don't understand all other religions, but I am willing to and have learned from the believers of said religions.  And when I am wrong, call me on it, although as I don't assume about other religions much, I don't guess I will get many calls.

But lately, someone has decided Catholicism is a cult!  And they listed reasons, 6 of 7 wrong! and the 7th?  Something practiced by all Christian, Judiasm and Muslim religions!  I guess that makes 3/4 of the world a sect!  Duh!

Today we are going to discuss Annulment.  For those who know the truth, fine.  This is for the other 75% who don't have a clue, including many Catholics!

In Catholicism, we believe that when a man marries a woman, and it is blessed by the church, the love of Christ has entered into the union.  And I suspect every one hopes that as well.  But we must promise that we will allow that love to guide us in raising our children!  Yep, that may be Cultish, but one of the promises is to raise the children Catholic!

Now all is well for 1, 2 5, 10 20 years.  And then Mommy and Daddy get divorced!  Something went wrong!  Indeed it did, although, yep!  I was totally clueless (My family was not).

So I got a divorce.  I found out, via her shrink, for a non event about her brother raping her (he did not, they were just....well...I did not know it when I married her, and not until the divorce)., that she never loved me.

Excuse me?  I spent 20 years of my life married (plus a couple dating)!  But that was an epiphany.  And no, it was not a spite thing.  This was her shrink! (she still needs one BTW).

So we divorced.  I should have known she was and is a complete psycho!  her mother is and was! But I thought we could be peaceful!  hehehehehe!  yea I am stupid!

So you see the set up.  The Judge nailed her and her quota kid lawyer to the wall! (Never hire a quota kid if you want to win).

So she jumps in bed with some witless wonder, and I am sitting on a bunch of assets, and a lot of income.  Only child support now!

Then I met a goddess!  A woman who loves me, and yea she bitch slaps me (Note for Trudy - it is not always bad) when I deserve it (and sometimes when I don't).  We marry years later.  But her family is Catholic.  She is not a good one, but once a Catholic, always a Catholic!

So I do the Annulment thing.  It was long but not hard, as since my first wife never loved me (she used me to get away from an abusive situation), it was never in doubt.  I did not lie (I did not have to).  And she never contested it (although her stories to the kids leave a lot to be desired).

Why was the annulment so easy?  Did it make my children bastards?

The answer to the first is simple.  You cannot have the love of Christ in your Marriage when one party lied at the vows!  And the second part is just as easy.  No they are not.  We were married, legally and in the eyes of the church.  But Man is not infallible, and they need to acknowledge their errors.

The Church did. period.

So all you who get on your horse about annulment, chill!  It has nothing to do with bastardization!  It has nothing to do with making something disappear!

it has everything to do with realizing that sometimes, marriages are flawed from the get go!

So if you want to hate my religion, please do so for the right reasons!  not for some ignorant ones.


Comments (Page 12)
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on Nov 19, 2005
Well we can't all be right there Dr. Guy!! A Jew is religious but he doesn't believe in Jesus being God (or God's Son). A muslim believes his God is Allah and we as Christians believe the OT God is Jehovah. A Mormon believes that Satan and Jesus were spirit brothers. A Jehovah Witness doesn't believe Jesus is God and that Jesus was created. We can't all be right.....btw...I was Morman, JW and Catholic (among others) but not Muslim.

HC and I agree on most everything and definitely all that are essentials. Rarely, but when we do have a different viewpoint it's always on what is considered a non-essential.

Essentials-Unity
Non-Essentials-Liberty
In all things-Love
on Nov 19, 2005

Well we can't all be right there Dr. Guy!!

Yes we can.  For it is faith, not facts.  WHile I do not beleive in the evil god of Muslims, I do believe in the benevolent god of Muslims, since their God is really our god.  As is the Judiasm God.

Faith is not a right or wrong thing.  I am not one who believes in situational ethics.  But I will not comdemn a path to God that is not my own, as long as love is the central theme. Love of God, and Love of your neighbor.  For were not those the 2 greatest commandments?

on Nov 19, 2005
oh my, no Allah is not our God. There was a time I thought so too. Thinking maybe they just believed in a different name but all in all the same. But after doing some extensive research I found out that Allah goes way back to the time of Abraham, and was the moon god of his day. And when you read their writings along with the Quran you will see the difference. While the Jews and the Christians have the same Father in the OT Jehovah God, not so with the Muslims. Remember they claim the line of Ishmael not Isaac. Both from the line of Abraham, but went different ways.

You can have faith in anything....I believe some have faith in humanism, some in their jobs, some in money, some in evolution etc . Does that mean they have the truth? Jesus said...I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. If so, what other way can there be? If not so, we need to tell Jesus some day that he was mistaken. I'm not about to do that.

on Nov 20, 2005

If not so, we need to tell Jesus some day that he was mistaken. I'm not about to do that.

Nor would I ever expect you to!  But the god of Abraham and Jesus is the same God.  So while some muslims do pervert the message, he is still the same God.

on Nov 20, 2005
Yes the God of Abraham and Jesus is the same God...yes, by golly you've got it!!! But not the god of the Muslims and the God of Abraham. God called him away from that telling Abraham to leave Mesopotamia (modern Iraq) where the pagan gods were being worshiped I'm on vaca maybe when I get back I can get you more info....

I've got some really good books from very reputable sources ..... Muslims that have left Islam and have embraced Christianity. They talk of the differences between Allah and Jehovah God. Also National Geographic did a big article on the Three Religions a few years back, Christianity, Islam and Judiasm.

Maybe that's our new topic? Hey I know why don't you address that? And then I can comment on it!!!
on Nov 20, 2005

Maybe that's our new topic? Hey I know why don't you address that? And then I can comment on it!!!

I have a better idea.  Why dont you address it, and then I will comment on it!  As I said before, I am not a biblical scholar. I do defer to you on that account.

I dont think muslims have left The God, but I do believe that many have left The God.

on Nov 20, 2005
I have a better idea. Why dont you address it, and then I will comment on it!


Ouch!! I knew you were going to say that!!! Maybe I will....
on Nov 20, 2005

Ouch!! I knew you were going to say that!!! Maybe I will....

Ask Heather.  I am a real stinker!

on Nov 20, 2005
Jesus said...I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. If so, what other way can there be?


There's only one way, because there's only One God - Jesus Christ. If there's only one God, then it follows that our world religions are in touch with the same God, (i.e. Christ), only from a different perspective and cultural context. Realistically, the religion we choose to follow depends primarily on where we were born. God is love. Does God love Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Christians alike? I'm sure He does, otherwise what kind of God are we putting our faith in? I think Christians should consider this issue more and embody the spirit of love as our global awareness rises.
on Nov 21, 2005
Little whip, that sums it up perfectly!
on Nov 22, 2005
Very nice but not biblical. Remember the Jews rejected Jesus? He said if they reject Him, they reject the Father also. It all comes down to one question....."Who do you say that I AM?

Also God said in his first commandment..."Have no other gods before me

God said to Moses...tell the people that I AM sent you...to differentiate from all the other gods out there. Same today....many gods but only one true God.

A famous pastor I really admired said once in reply to the question..."Do you think Jews are going to hell cuz they rejected Christ?" He answered...."My own dear children will see hell if they reject Christ."

See they tried to trap this godly man and he answered so biblically, so Christlike, they had no retort. He left them speechless.

Jesus said there is no other way to the Father but thru him....today that is very intolerant speech. But the question remains...."Who do you say that I AM?"
on Nov 22, 2005

God is love. Does God love Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Christians alike? I'm sure He does, otherwise what kind of God are we putting our faith in? I think Christians should consider this issue more and embody the spirit of love as our global awareness rises.

I think you are right!  That I agree with.

on Nov 22, 2005
God is LOVE.....but he hates Sin!! That's the part everyone forgets about.....He said himself....Jacob have I loved and Esau I hate. It's not the person, it's what the person represents. He loves all and is not partial in any way. He accepts all that will come to Him, Jew, and Gentile alike....... and that is the key...those who come to him he will in no way cast out.

on Nov 22, 2005

He loves all and is not partial in any way. He accepts all that will come to Him, Jew, and Gentile alike....... and that is the key...those who come to him he will in no way cast out.

So he will not cast out someone who has never heard the Gospels, yet still leads a good and holy life, right?

on Nov 22, 2005
Very nice but not biblical.


but it is Biblical. What are your views on the following verses, KFC? (Italics are mine)

1 John 2.2: "And Christ himself is the means by which our sins are forgiven, and not our sins only, but also the sins of everyone."

John 12.32: Jesus said, "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me."

1 Timothy 4.10: "We trust in the living God, who is the saviour of all men, especially of those who believe".

Colossians 1.20: "God made peace through His Son's blood on the cross, and so brought back to Himself all things, both in earth and in Heaven."

John 1.9: "That was the real Light - the light that comes into the world and shines on everyone.”

"There is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (1.29).

1 John 4.16: "God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in union with God and God lives in union with him."

1 John 4.7: “Dear friends, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Whoever loves is a child of God and knows God.”


Remember the Jews rejected Jesus? He said if they reject Him, they reject the Father also. It all comes down to one question....."Who do you say that I AM?

Also God said in his first commandment..."Have no other gods before me

God said to Moses...tell the people that I AM sent you...to differentiate from all the other gods out there. Same today....many gods but only one true God.

A famous pastor I really admired said once in reply to the question..."Do you think Jews are going to hell cuz they rejected Christ?" He answered...."My own dear children will see hell if they reject Christ."

See they tried to trap this godly man and he answered so biblically, so Christlike, they had no retort. He left them speechless.

Jesus said there is no other way to the Father but thru him....today that is very intolerant speech. But the question remains...."Who do you say that I AM?"


Christ is God, and there's only One God. I believe that the different religions of the world are in touch with the same God, whether they recognise Him as Jesus or not. But that's my personal opinion and interpretation. (We can't really deny that our own views are rooted in subjective perspective and interpretation.)

KFC, ask your self honestly: if you had been born into a loving Muslim household in a different country, (i.e. in a Muslim culture), do you think you'd now be promulgating what the Qu'ran says, and wouldn't give a hoot about what the Bible says? And if you were in a similar fundamentalist mindset, wouldn't you be now attempting to convert people to Islam? (Remember, nearly two thirds of the entire planet are Muslim.)

One of the most harmonious and wise teachings that I've come across regarding inter-faith issues, comes from Zen Buddhist Master, Thich Nhat Hanh. He writes:

“Real dialogue makes us more open minded, tolerant and understanding. In a true dialogue, we allow the good, the beautiful and the meaningful in the other's tradition to transform us. ... When we have peace within, real dialogue with others is possible … The career of the practitioner is the career of enlightenment. Enlightenment here means ‘Touching the ultimate’.”

Hahn continues, “When we touch the ultimate dimension of reality, we get the deepest kind of relief. Each of us has the capacity to touch Nirvana. … Christian contemplation includes the practise of resting in God which I believe is the equivalent of touching Nirvana. …. The Kingdom of God is available here and now. The energy of the Holy Spirit is the energy that helps us touch the Kingdom of God. … I do not think there is that much difference between Christians and Buddhists. … A truly happy Christian is really a Buddhist. And vice-versa".

And another wise bloke, Indian spiritual leader Sri Chinmoy, wrote “Each religion is right, absolutely right, in its own way, but when we cry for the highest truth, the love of God becomes the only religion.”
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