A Breath of Sanity
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Catholic Misconceptions
Published on November 2, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I am putting this under religion because lately there has been a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism.

Now I will be the first to say that I don't understand all other religions, but I am willing to and have learned from the believers of said religions.  And when I am wrong, call me on it, although as I don't assume about other religions much, I don't guess I will get many calls.

But lately, someone has decided Catholicism is a cult!  And they listed reasons, 6 of 7 wrong! and the 7th?  Something practiced by all Christian, Judiasm and Muslim religions!  I guess that makes 3/4 of the world a sect!  Duh!

Today we are going to discuss Annulment.  For those who know the truth, fine.  This is for the other 75% who don't have a clue, including many Catholics!

In Catholicism, we believe that when a man marries a woman, and it is blessed by the church, the love of Christ has entered into the union.  And I suspect every one hopes that as well.  But we must promise that we will allow that love to guide us in raising our children!  Yep, that may be Cultish, but one of the promises is to raise the children Catholic!

Now all is well for 1, 2 5, 10 20 years.  And then Mommy and Daddy get divorced!  Something went wrong!  Indeed it did, although, yep!  I was totally clueless (My family was not).

So I got a divorce.  I found out, via her shrink, for a non event about her brother raping her (he did not, they were just....well...I did not know it when I married her, and not until the divorce)., that she never loved me.

Excuse me?  I spent 20 years of my life married (plus a couple dating)!  But that was an epiphany.  And no, it was not a spite thing.  This was her shrink! (she still needs one BTW).

So we divorced.  I should have known she was and is a complete psycho!  her mother is and was! But I thought we could be peaceful!  hehehehehe!  yea I am stupid!

So you see the set up.  The Judge nailed her and her quota kid lawyer to the wall! (Never hire a quota kid if you want to win).

So she jumps in bed with some witless wonder, and I am sitting on a bunch of assets, and a lot of income.  Only child support now!

Then I met a goddess!  A woman who loves me, and yea she bitch slaps me (Note for Trudy - it is not always bad) when I deserve it (and sometimes when I don't).  We marry years later.  But her family is Catholic.  She is not a good one, but once a Catholic, always a Catholic!

So I do the Annulment thing.  It was long but not hard, as since my first wife never loved me (she used me to get away from an abusive situation), it was never in doubt.  I did not lie (I did not have to).  And she never contested it (although her stories to the kids leave a lot to be desired).

Why was the annulment so easy?  Did it make my children bastards?

The answer to the first is simple.  You cannot have the love of Christ in your Marriage when one party lied at the vows!  And the second part is just as easy.  No they are not.  We were married, legally and in the eyes of the church.  But Man is not infallible, and they need to acknowledge their errors.

The Church did. period.

So all you who get on your horse about annulment, chill!  It has nothing to do with bastardization!  It has nothing to do with making something disappear!

it has everything to do with realizing that sometimes, marriages are flawed from the get go!

So if you want to hate my religion, please do so for the right reasons!  not for some ignorant ones.


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Comments (Page 13)
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181
KFC Kickin For Christ
on Nov 22, 2005
Ok Andy...geeesh did you haveta bring up so many.........I think I know where you're going or what you are thinking these verses mean....but before I take them one at a time...just a couple of others first to put with what you put down. You haveta reconcile all together when you come up with an answer. What do you think these mean?

John 17:9 I pray for them, I pray not for the world, but for them which you have given me for they are yours.

John 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them because they are not of the world even as I am not of the world.

He calls his own out of the world. He tells them to be in the world but not of the world.

This is the intercessory prayer that Jesus prayed to the father. Notice he says he doesn't pray for the world.

Also John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, which Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world to the Father having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

John 3:16 I don't think I haveta write it out.cuz I'm very sure you know this one....but what doesn't get quoted is the next couple of verse after this which states:

John 3:17-19 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on Him is not condemned but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

All thru the bible the prerequisite for gaining entrance into heaven....is belief.....all hinges on that...but not just any old belief....it has to be in the Son of God which we all know is Jesus. Look at that word "belief" in John 3:16 as well. If we say there are other "ways" out there then we are calling Jesus a liar. He said there is no other way. Now having said that...onto your scriptures you picked out.......
182
KFC Kickin For Christ
on Nov 22, 2005
1 John 2.2: "And Christ himself is the means by which our sins are forgiven, and not our sins only, but also the sins of everyone."


Ok, this is talking about Christ being the only offering that satisfied God concerning sin. God's wrath over sin is satisfied in this sacrifice, the perfect one. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, the entire race. If that's what you're saying...I agree with you.
But again you have to come to a belief in this...he didn't just die in vain, he died for those willing to come to the cross and follow him. Also somewhere else in scripture it says there is no other sacrifice that will be done. This is it.

John 12.32: Jesus said, "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me."


Now here he was talking to the Jews but the Greeks (gentiles) were outside (not allowed in the temple) and he was saying His saving grace will be available to Greeks as well as to the Jews.Paul talks about the great mystery in Eph 3:1-6 which basically says that the Gentiles would be fellowheirs and partakers of all the promises made to the Jews. All without distinction. This also has been aluded to in John 10:6 in the "other sheep" outside the Jewish fold. Also he speaks of by his death gathering together the children of God who are scattered abroad 11:52. ]His death will obliterate all racial and religious barriers.[


1 Timothy 4.10: "We trust in the living God, who is the saviour of all men, especially of those who believe".


He paid the ransom for all (2:6) but not all are going to accept this...again belief is the prerequisite.

Colossians 1.20: "God made peace through His Son's blood on the cross, and so brought back to Himself all things, both in earth and in Heaven."


well you have to read this in the whole context....go down to V23 which says:

If you continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven.....

1:20 is saying that Christ is the mediator, the remedy for our alienation from God. He will eventually reconcile all things as it says but some of this is going to involve judgment...not all love and good stuff. You see this in:

1 Cor 15:24-28 Then comes the end when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign till he has put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him that God may be all in all.

John 1.9: "That was the real Light - the light that comes into the world and shines on everyone.”


My favorite book..... this doesn't mean "every" man as you might be thinking but every man that is redeemed. This redemption comes from Jesus, and this light is available for all men. But not all men accept this, (Read what I quoted above in John 3:17-19). Keep reading in 1:12

1:12 But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name.

There is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (1.29).


You should know history on this to really understand the context. The Passover Lamb was celebrated every year for the Jews alone. This was their celebration for God's deliverance out of Egypt and also represented his covering their sins with the blood of the lamb. Remember they had to put blood over their doorposts to escape the wrath of God? Well this looked forward to one day there would be a perfect lamb that would not just cover (atone) but would completely take away the sins and not the Jews only but now including all the non Jews of the world. Again, you would have to believe in God to put the blood over your doorpost or in the NT believe in Jesus's blood to take away your sins forever.

I fear I've made this quite lengthy and it's hard to do justice over JU so I hope this is enough info for you. One thing to keep in mind tho.....a text taken out of context is a pretext. It's just a principle I've learned over the years when it comes to scripture especially. Also again and again...we see the criteria for being a child of God and belonging to Him is belief in His Name.

Acts 4:12 says Neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given among men wheby we must be saved.

Sorry for so much HW......feedback?
183
KFC Kickin For Christ
on Nov 22, 2005
So he will not cast out someone who has never heard the Gospels, yet still leads a good and holy life, right?


What the heck...since I'm on a roll here...........well Doc ok if I answer your question with a question? How good is good enough?
184
Nadeon
on Nov 22, 2005
Hey Doc, just what was the topic here anyway?
185
Dr Guy
on Nov 22, 2005

Hey Doc, just what was the topic here anyway?

Well, it was Annulment.  Now, I dont know.  But it is not annulment!

186
AndyBaker
on Nov 23, 2005
KFC, thanks for your reply and lengthy analysis. I personally believe we can afford some breathing space from extreme scriptural fundamentalism. Fine tooth combing our Holy Books in such a way inevitably leads to clashes in opinion and contradictions. We may as well get the Qur’an out and fine tooth comb that, as I think all our Holy Books are valid and hold a wealth of wisdom. (I admit I started the close-analysis of verses in the previous post, but I can't carry it on.)

I’m more interested in the underlying messages and common ground in our world religions, to be honest. I’ve learned that they’re like jigsaw pieces, which fit together to form a harmonious whole. Fundamentalism doesn’t strike much of a chord for me personally, although I admire your faith immensely. I'm a big fan of the Bible, but all that fine-tooth combing goes a bit over my head. People can argue about different interpretations for ever and a day, so we may as well get some peace now.
187
KFC Kickin For Christ
on Nov 23, 2005
KFC, thanks for your reply


You're quite welcome!! My pleasure. I've been studying this book for more than 30 years and have compared it to many other writings along the way and as you probably know......I'm convinced there's nothing like this. I haven't even begun to make a dent in this.

I’m more interested in the underlying messages and common ground in our world religions, to be honest. I’ve learned that they’re like jigsaw pieces, which fit together to form a harmonious whole


Ya, we'd have to disagree here cuz I don't believe that there is any common ground in all the world religions. Yes there are very nice people in all of them. I've not only met them....I was them as I have been involved in many different groups out there.

Remember Jesus said he did not come to bring peace, but a sword.....sounds harsh I know but what that means to me is he's the dividing line and we are on one side or the other.

We may as well get the Qur’an out and fine tooth comb that


I can do this...........

I'm a big fan of the Bible, but all that fine-tooth combing goes a bit over my head


Well I'm always here to help....if you have questions.......it's not as hard as you think.......one piece at a time.

we may as well find some peace now


Grace and Peace to you......(peace always follows grace)

KFC
188
KFC Kickin For Christ
on Nov 23, 2005
Hey Doc, just what was the topic here anyway


Sorry,,,,sure it's my fault..........guess I got us off track somewhere way back.....this is taking on a life of it's own.

Did I say I don't believe in annulments except in rare circumstances? My friend Mary has been trying to get an annulment hru the CC even tho she and her husband have been faithful goers for over 20 years. It's turning out to be an eye opener for her.





189
Dr Guy
on Nov 25, 2005

Sorry,,,,sure it's my fault....

No, it was not you.  And I dont mind either.  This was a good one.

Did I say I don't believe in annulments except in rare circumstances? My friend Mary has been trying to get an annulment hru the CC even tho she and her husband have been faithful goers for over 20 years. It's turning out to be an eye opener for her.

Tell her to move to Virginia.  it is a lot nicer procedure, altho it does open up some old wounds.  I may blog about that one day.  I loved the one question:

Q: Did you think that was normal?
A: Are you asking me as a 21 year old man?  Or a 45 year old man?  at 21, I did not know what was normal.  Today, I clearly know it was not.

That is pretty much how the whole interview went.

p.s. Check out my latest on Infallibility. Definitely not as controverisal.

190
KFC Kickin For Christ
on Nov 25, 2005
I guess not sure about the "that" in the question?

I also got married at 21!!! But still married to the same guy!! Get this! He was an altar boy and thought hard about being a priest!! But he too left the CC.

I did check out your site on infallibility....but didn't want to offend you!! But since you asked........I don't believe anybody Pope or not is infallible even if he's sitting on the special chair. Where are you getting this from? What source?

I'm not sure if I ever did know this or not so I'm not being smart here....I know alot about the RCC (having been one) but I'm not sure where this first started. I know alot of the doctrines didn't come into being until late in the last couple of centuries like you said about the assumption of Mary and her sinlessness being a couple of them. I also know that priests were allowed to be married up until I think the 12th century. I've done tons of HW in this area.

Do you want me to start something on the other site? I'm sure I can think of somethin...........
191
AndyBaker
on Nov 26, 2005
Ya, we'd have to disagree here cuz I don't believe that there is any common ground in all the world religions. Yes there are very nice people in all of them. I've not only met them....I was them as I have been involved in many different groups out there.


Sure there is common ground. Starting with the basics, with a broad brush stroke:

(1) There is purpose to our existence on earth
(2) God, or a Higher Reality, exists
(3) Death is not the end
(4) The ultimate dimension of reality is Spirit
(5) The force of good, or love, transcends the universe, and will prevail, and "good" is the ultimate nature of reality

All our religions declare these truths, and even though they cannot be proved by science, they can be proved for oneself by inner-intuition. (I believe that human consciousness is a deep and powerful reality. There's more to life than meets the eye, and these higher truths can be found by more than faith.)

Christianity and Islam also hold great common ground, and the tale of Adam and Eve is shared in the beginning of both Holy Books. Islam, however, discloses a profound twist to the story, which provides a fuller picture, and makes greater sense in the face of the theory of evolution. (I've talked about the Qur'an's version of the Garden of Eden too many times on JU, however, and people have already said that I can sound a bit like a record-player, so I won't labour it all again.) I’ll mention again, though, that Islam is our latest world religion in the evolutionary line, and as evolution denotes growth, we can expect some fruitful insights to be contained in it. Also, (cue record player), our world faiths are really harmonious allies, which together expand human understanding beyond the scope of an individual faith system alone.

Grace and Peace to you......(peace always follows grace)


Amen, brother.


And to you too KFC and Little Whip!
192
AndyBaker
on Nov 26, 2005
here's another 5. Speaking generally:

(6) love one another as yourself etc. promotes spiritual growth.
(7) you reap what you sow
(8) "fate" plays a large part in life, in one form or another
(9) there's a bigger picture
(10) We can attain inner peace, regardless of external conditions, by finding refuge in "God"

Some of these can be learned and proved for oneself by practical means, like cosmic laws, regardless of one's religion.
193
AndyBaker
on Nov 26, 2005
however, people have already said that I can sound a bit like a record-player


(does that sound like a dig at people? It wasn't a dig, and I completely agree that I sound like a record player!)
194
Dr Guy
on Nov 26, 2005

Where are you getting this from? What source?

Adult religious Ed.  And you would not insult me.  As I said, I dont expect most people to believe, for they are not Catholic.  But understanding how and why we believe is all I am after.  Many (even Catholics) think that The Pope is INfallible period.  And that is the misconception I wanted to clear up.  He is human after all.

195
Dr Guy
on Nov 26, 2005

(1) There is purpose to our existence on earth
(2) God, or a Higher Reality, exists
(3) Death is not the end
(4) The ultimate dimension of reality is Spirit
(5) The force of good, or love, transcends the universe, and will prevail, and "good" is the ultimate nature of reality

here's another 5. Speaking generally:

(6) love one another as yourself etc. promotes spiritual growth.
(7) you reap what you sow
(8) "fate" plays a large part in life, in one form or another
(9) there's a bigger picture
(10) We can attain inner peace, regardless of external conditions, by finding refuge in "God"

Very good basis!

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