Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
A question for all to Ponder
Published on October 7, 2005 By Dr Guy In Politics

Moderateman (http://moderateman.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=88642), in a defense of Harriet Miers, just made an interesting statement:

put the lefts precious abortion rights at risk and there is nothing that gets the left foaming at the mouth faster than a perception that someone might overturn Roe V Wade.

Taken at face value, the statement seems to be one of those "well Duh" ones.  And if that were indeed the case, no more would need to be said.

But I have a question for everyone here.  How would overturning Roe versus Wade affect abortion rights?  So many yell that over turning it would make abortions illegal.  Would it?

There is no reputable legal scholar around today that thinks that Roe is a good ruling.  It basically sucks and shows that you don't have to be smart to be on the Supreme Court.  Bakerstreet showed that the so called 'right to privacy' is no such right at all, and that the only thing that Roe did was make abortion a right.  Note, I did not say found the right to abortion.  For Roe found nothing.  Roe created a right.  By 7 unelected people.  In one ruling, they disenfranchised 200+ million people in the United States.

So why not over rule it?  Would not that be better so we could have a better ruling for the future?

And if it is over ruled, what will happen to abortion?

Anyone want to take a stab at answering that?


Comments (Page 1)
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on Oct 07, 2005
Overturning RvW would throw the issues back to the states. Currently, 15 states have criminal bans that would outlaw abortion throughout pregnancy: AL, AR, AZ, CO, DE, LA, MA, MI, MS, NM, OK, UT, VT, WI, WV. 27 states have bans that would outlaw abortion as early as 12 weeks, with no health exception: AK, AL, AR, AZ, FL, IA, ID, IL, IN, KY, LA, MI, MO, MS, ND, NE, NJ, OH, OK, RI, SC, SD, TN, UT, VA, WI, WV.

So, to answer your question: In 32 states (the 27 plus CO, DE, MA, NM, and VT) abortion would be illegal.
on Oct 07, 2005

So, to answer your question: In 32 states (the 27 plus CO, DE, MA, NM, and VT) abortion would be illegal.

No, by your own count, it would only be in 15, not 32.  But then that would leave 35 where abortion was legal.  So how would that make abortion in the United States illegal?  Seems to me that everyone would have access to it, just not very conveniently for some.

on Oct 07, 2005
And is that such a bad thing? Remember the 10th Amendment? "Any rights or powers that are not explicitly given to the Federal government are reserved for the individual states" - paraphrased a little.

If the electorate of the 15 states have determined that they do not want abortions to be legally available in their state. Another 17 states have determined that they would make it illegal after the 1st trimester. That still leaves us with 18 states plus DC, PR, USVI, Guam, and a couple other places that HAVEN'T already decided or have decided that it should be legal.

Sounds like it's working to me. Why should 7 people, making a decision on a case where the plaintiff EXPLICITLY DID NOT WANT TO PURSUE, make the decision for the rest of us?

Roe v. Wade walks all over the 10th Amendment. As has been pointed out in other places, R v W CREATES a right that was present before. It overrules the states right to define their own policies based on local beliefs and understandings.

on Oct 07, 2005
Oh, iffen ya can't tell ... I'm leaning very much towards the States rights as opposed to the Federal Gestapo ideal ...
on Oct 07, 2005
No, by your own count, it would only be in 15, not 32. But then that would leave 35 where abortion was legal. So how would that make abortion in the United States illegal? Seems to me that everyone would have access to it, just not very conveniently for some.


Abortion, as it stands today, would be eliminated in 32 states--the 27 that have bans as early as 12 weeks, and the 15 that have criminal bans (with the majority overlapping).

The thing is, there are also a handful of states that have toyed with bans, but as the bans are currently unenforacable, and a violation of a supreme court ruling, they haven't bothered. So the number will rise.

I'm not asking for convenience, Dr. Guy--but it's either legal or not. And if it is, then your ability to afford one shouldn't be based on where you happen to be living. The fact that you live in NM should determine whether or not you receive certain medical producures (and that is what this is, in my view). Let's not make this a haves/haves not issue. It's either available to all, or not.
on Oct 07, 2005

And is that such a bad thing? Remember the 10th Amendment? "Any rights or powers that are not explicitly given to the Federal government are reserved for the individual states" - paraphrased a little.


I didn't make a value judgement in my first comment--I answered the question asked--he wanted to know how things would change--well, the change would be remarkable.

But yes, I do think it is a bad thing. Overturning RvW would be the first step on a path of eroding reproductive rights.
on Oct 07, 2005

As has been pointed out in other places, R v W CREATES a right that was present before.

NOT present before. And you are right, it should be over turned because it is unconstitutional.

on Oct 07, 2005

Abortion, as it stands today, would be eliminated in 32 states--the 27 that have bans as early as 12 weeks, and the 15 that have criminal bans (with the majority overlapping).

No, it would only over turn it in the 15.  The 12 allow it for the first tri-mester.  By my english dictionary, that means it would be legal.  Just not under any circumstances as it is now.

on Oct 07, 2005
Overturning RvW would be the first step on a path of eroding reproductive rights.


How? How would overturning Roe V. Wade erode reproductive rights?

Overturning Roe V. Wade will return the determination of WHO decides back to the individual states. It will not (in and of itself) make abortion legal or illegal. It will allow each individual state (as designated by the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution) to make that decision. That's all. If the individual states decide one way or the other, that's their perogrative. However, I still don't understand how throwing that decision making capability back to the seperate states would cause an erosion of reproductive rights.
on Oct 07, 2005

Let's not make this a haves/haves not issue. It's either available to all, or not.

It is not a have/have not issue as anyone could still get one.  Some would be a little bit more inconvenienced than others.  That is all.

And if you want to create a level playing field, legislate it.  Dont adjudicate it.  One is the right and democratic way to go.  The other is just a different form of totalitarianism.

on Oct 07, 2005
NOT present before. And you are right, it should be over turned because it is unconstitutional.

Gah. I was thinking NOT present ... that's what I get for thinking faster than my fingers can type.
on Oct 07, 2005
See doc with the left it always comes down to abortion, just like I said.
on Oct 07, 2005

I'm leaning very much towards the States rights as opposed to the Federal Gestapo ideal

So do Liberals, when it suits their purpose.

on Oct 07, 2005

Overturning RvW would be the first step on a path of eroding reproductive rights.

How?  It would not ban births.  I have not seen anywhere were it would ban sex between consenting adults, or the abstinance thereof.  Nor would it make adults obtain a permit to have a baby.

on Oct 07, 2005

Overturning Roe V. Wade will return the determination of WHO decides back to the individual states

Here is another example shades.  Maryland does not like smoking.  So they ban it even in your house (in some cases).  What right do the people of Virginia have to negate that law just because it causes some Virginians (Farmers) hardships?  Same arguement, different medium.

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