Racism, Alive and well on the left side

And they call the Kettle black?

Published on January 21, 2005 By Dr Guy In Current Events

There was a diatribe written by a left member of JU decrying the fact that we had to suffer 4 more years of George W. Bush recently. They (the articles on the suffering they must endure for another 4 years) are becoming rather comical, and to be laughed at instead of railed at (they should be posted under Humor, not Politics). Strange how you did not see conservatives moaning and whining about '4 more years' of Clinton 8 years ago.

But this one was different, and as the poster said, it is their blog and they can say what they want. Yes, they can say what they want. However, they stepped over the edge of decency when they started comparing the Jews and Israel to Hitler and Nazi Germany. Sorry folks, that got me and I went off. I probably should have ignorred it, as being a racists and bigot is your right, whether it is right or wrong.

But I could not let it go, and indeed, I jumped all over them for the following part:

Do you think Israel's behaviour is acceptable? Keeping the Palestinians in the giant concentration camps of Gaza and the West Bank, killing them, torturing them, treating them like dogs?

Yes, you see I dont see any of that happening. The Palestinians are NOT in concentration camps (do you think the Jews at Dachau or Auschwitz could get bombs and blow up German Civilians?) and their treatment is at their OWN hands, not the Israelis! That the israelis are trying to protect their own citizenry (which are majority jews, but also have people of all faiths and even no faith), and they have to put up with these racists and bigots comparing them to Nazis!

Well,. you are right, it is yoru own blog and you can say what you want, and this is my blog and I can say what I want.

I think there is a comparison, although it's not one you want to hear. Israel is exclusively designed for Jews, and non-Jews are treated as second class citizens - fact.

WRONG! Arabs, Muslims, Christians and Jews share equally in a democratic nation. That it was founded by Jews for jews is irrelevant (just like America was founded by Christians for Christians). In actual FACT, it is a non-secular nation. No one is forced to profess faith in Judaic law or belief.

Please tell me how the Palestinian plight is self-inflicted? For being on the wrong bit of land when Israel was created? Yeah - I can see why it's all their fault. For resisting peacfully for years, and realising that it was getting them nowhere, so they took up arms against one of the best equipped militaries in the world?

Wrong again! Jordan occupied and kept the Palestinians down Until Israel captured the West Bank and Gaza during the 6 day war. At no time did the Palestinians ever try for self government. If you want to Blame someone, Blame Jordan for not trying to help them to state hood in all the years they occupied the West Bank. But no, you only see the evil Jews!

The jews established a country with Laws. The Palestinians have taken up arms since day one and have never tried to create a country or LAWS. Peacefully resisting? Yea, like the 11 atheletes in Munich! So doves they are! read your history! Dont even try to proclaim that! You pretend to be against violence? Go use yourself as a human shield on a tel Aviv Bus some day!

That's not an anti-semetic statement, it's how things work in Israel.

No, that is how you would like it to work so you could then justify your hatred of Israel.

Palestinians are forced to carry papers, to live in ghettos, and see their livelihood of growing olives destroyed - they cannot work, they cannot make money, they cannot afford to feed themselves. They are humilitated on a daily basis by soldiers and settlers. They live under curfew. They live with the constant threat of being killed, interned or being tortured. This was how the Holocaust started. I don't want to see another Holocaust.

Being forced to Carry Papers is the worst that is happening to them, and it is because they are at war with Israel, and instead of just wiping them out, Israel is trying to catch the terrorist. They are not starving, and they are working! You look at Palesstine and see Sudan. Your view is so far off of reality as to be pure fantasy! Ghettos? You have no conception of a Ghetto! They are free to roam about as they please! IN a Ghetto, you have no right to move anywhere! What, do you think they 'escape' at night to plant those bombs? How myopic are you?

Ah! And there is another word! Holocaust! Yes people! I thought we would never forget the holocaust! But alas we have, and now when a bunch of bomb throwing terrorist are killed (and yes there is collateral damage, there always is in war), that is anotehr Holocaust!

Policies that carry state terrorism to the point of mass killings for political ends and "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part" (Article 2(c) of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide), constitute genocide. I stand by my point. Don't call me a racist.

You would oh so want their to be 'mass killing' and yes there are. Of Israeli citizens. Israel has beene very measured in its response to its daily 9-11s. More measured than any other country could expect to be. Yes, there have been killings. In retaliation, and most of the time in a measured and intelligent way. Yet to you that is Genocide.

Excuse me, you also sated that Israel had a well armed and modern military. If that is the case, then you would also concede that if they wanted to, israel could have wiped out the Palestinians already as they just have sticks and stones and olive branches! What garbage!

The simple fact is that you are a racist bigot, and you proved it. Concentration Camps? Treated like Dogs? Ghettos? Holocaust? How many other nazi institutions do you want to conjure up? Just to feed your sick hatred of jews.

I dont hate you, I pity you. I pity the fact that you spout facts that are not facts but lies. All to justify your irrational hatred of a Race and Religion you dont understand, or a situation you have no comprehension of. I pity you because no amount of evidence, facts or eye witnesses will ever allow you to see the truth.

Wallow in your hatred. I guess like a pig in slop, you are happy that way.

Comments (Page 1)

Moderateman

on Jan 21, 2005

yikes drguy.... thats all I can say..As a Jew i should stay out of this discussion. but it did tear at my soul... in a good/bad way

Myrrander

on Jan 21, 2005

Nah, there were plenty of righties bitching in '96. I mean, the whole Whitewater BS was Republican sour grapes.

As for the rest, you have a habit of taking comments made by one person and generalising it to fit an entire group. It's intellectually dishonest, as are most of the things you write.

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

Thanks for this thread Doc... I personally appreciate it. The life of the Palestinians is not an easy one today... that is a fact. We too (Israelis) are forced to carry papers as well... it is not limited to Palestinians. It is very difficult for a Palestinian today to earn a decent living in Israel, but to compare the Israeli government to nazi germany is WRONG.. First of all, I as an Israeli Jew can protest the actions of my government. I can associate with whomever I want to, be they Jew or Muslim. If you know anything about me personally, then you know that I do exactly that..on a daily basis. I would not have had these rights in nazi germany, in fact I would have been gassed.
What Israel is doing is wrong and unforgivable, but namecalling will not change the situation.
We are far from being angels, and so are the Palestinians. We both have our bad points, but together we can work things out and create the most democratic state in the middle east. Of this I am sure, and am sure that one day peace will come to our region.
Again, thanks Doc.

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

As a Jew i should stay out of this discussion

No you should not Mod....

shadesofgrey

on Jan 21, 2005

First of all, I as an Israeli Jew can protest the actions of my government. I can associate with whomever I want to, be they Jew or Muslim.

Yes, Manopeace, you can. But the Palestinians are not free to do the same. In fact, many can not even travel to Jerusalem, if they do not carry a Jerusalem identity card. There is a marked difference between the rights of the Arab Israelis and the Palestinians and it is disingenuine to pretend otherwise. Palestinians are treated like animals. If we can't agree on this basic fact of life for Palestinians living in the occupied terrorities than we can move no further in this discussion.

That's not an anti-semetic statement, it's how things work in Israel.
No, that is how you would like it to work so you could then justify your hatred of Israel.

As many of us have said time and time again, dislike (even hatred) of Israel is not anti-semitism. You can dislike the government and have nothing against the Jews. Also, just for the record--your hatred of the Palestinians is also anti-semitic if you want to play that game. Arabs are semetic peoples as well. So if you'd like to toss rhetoric around all day, I'd be more than happy to oblige. However, I don't think the labelling or name calling gets you anywhere in this discussion.

messybuu

on Jan 21, 2005

This was a very insightful article. It's sad how some people can hate Israel so much that they think of it as Nazi Germany. Sure, some of what Israel does is questionable, but to compare them to Nazi Germany is either making light of the holocaust or showing true anti-semitism (and it is anti-semitism, because Palestine and the other Middle Eastern countries around Israel are just as bad, yet don't receive the same criticism).

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

In fact, many can not even travel to Jerusalem, if they do not carry a Jerusalem identity card.

First of all, there is no such thing as a Jerusalem Identity card. All Israeli citizens have an Israeli Identity card, both Jews and non Jews. Palestinians living in areas governed by the Palestinian Authority do not have these cards as they are not considered Israelis.

There is a marked difference between the rights of the Arab Israelis and the Palestinians and it is disingenuine to pretend otherwise.

Very true...for the reason I stated above. However, I as an Israeli Jew and Arab Israelis as well still can protest this situation and are free to travel to Palestinian areas. There are many Israelis involved in the struggle to gain full, equal rights for all Palestinians. This would not have been possible if the Israeli government was a nazi regime.

shadesofgrey

on Jan 21, 2005

To clarify--the Palestinians carry identity cards stating whether they are from East Jerusualem, the West Bank or Gaza. If they do not have E. Jerusalem on their identity card, they are not allowed in Jerusalem.

Manopeace--I appreciate that many Israelis are doing thing and working toward a peaceful solution, but you've just acknowledged our point--Palestinians are not accorded rights in Israel or the Occupied Territories because they are not considered citizens--this of course being the first of many human rights violations committed by the Israeli Government. Itgirl was not saying that Israel was acting like a Nazi regime in Israel proper--but that it was doing so in the West Bank and Gaza. To argue that the refugee camps are not ghettos, that the Palestinians aren't the poorest of the poor with little hope and no work, to pretend that everything is fine and dandy in the West Bank and Gaza is to ignore the reality on the ground. If everyone thinks that living in Gaza or Jenin or any other refugee camp in the Occupied Terrorities is such a breeze, please go live there for a week, and report back to us. I promise you will have a much different take on the situation.

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

because they are not considered citizens

They are NOT citizens of Israel. Grey, the majority of the people living in the territories have opten for Palestinian identity. The fact that they have not yet achieved statehood is a separate discussion, but as things stand now, they are for all practical purposes refered to as Palestinians..Not ISRAELIS.

If everyone thinks that living in Gaza or Jenin or any other refugee camp in the Occupied Terrorities is such a breeze, please go live there for a week, and report back to us. I promise you will have a much different take on the situation.

I have stayed in these areas for more than a week... and you are absolutely right. But again, I must say that these areas are under the control of the Palestinian Authority...not Israel.

True again...for the reasons I already stated.

Dr Guy

on Jan 21, 2005

Itgirl was not saying that Israel was acting like a Nazi regime in Israel proper--but that it was doing so in the West Bank and Gaza.

And in that she is DEAD wrong. It is not a cake walk in those areas, no one claims them to be. But there is a VAST difference between a Palestinian refugee camp and a Ghetto. There is a vast difference between protecting ones citizens, with resultant colateral deaths, than arbitrarily rounding up civilians and killing them. There is a vast difference for exterminating 6m people for a religious belief, and killing a bunch of suicide bombers.

You are known by the words you chose. Mano has eloquently stated why he is in opposition to some of Israels policies, and een gone so far in some cases as to state how he would like to change them. And in no instance did I see hateful, bigotted or racist words or phrases used. The same cannot be said for the other.

They chose those words for a purpose. to Inflame and incite hatred against a people. And that is racism, pure and simple.

shadesofgrey

on Jan 21, 2005

Manopeace--I get the fact that they are Palestinians, but Israel either needs to get out and let them be Palestinians (and fail or succeed on their own) or else they need to start abiding by human right laws. You can't say they aren't citizens because they are Palestinians on the one hand and then deny them indpendent statehood on the other. And I am not even going to engage the discussion of how the IDF and the Israeli government ties the hands of the PA so that they couldnt' hope to ever be able to crackdown on militants with in the terrorities. It's a discussion that would last far too long.

PS. I appreciated David's point before it was deleted -- not that I am advocating suing, but you should be careful what names you call people. As you've probably guessed, I know Itgirl in real life and I'm pretty disgusted by the name calling that occurred on her blog -- going on someone's blog and calling them a looney, loopey, lefty is simply trolling. Going there and engaging in a respectful discussion of how you view the situation would have been a more proactive and mature response--and if you couldn't do that, you should have simply stayed away. A little self censoring goes a long way in maintaining a peaceful discourse.

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

If you have read any of my political threads then you know that I agree with you 100%.

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

to Inflame and incite hatred against a people. And that is racism, pure and simple.

racism is the second only thing that can be pure... and the first is NOT Ivory Soap

Dr Guy

on Jan 21, 2005

PS. I appreciated David's point before it was deleted -- not that I am advocating suing, but you should be careful what names you call people. As you've probably guessed, I know Itgirl in real life and I'm pretty disgusted by the name calling that occurred on her blog -- going on someone's blog and calling them a looney, loopey, lefty is simply trolling. Going there and engaging in a respectful discussion of how you view the situation would have been a more proactive and mature response--and if you couldn't do that, you should have simply stayed away. A little self censoring goes a long way in maintaining a peaceful discourse.

I deleted Davids comments for the same reason that others do. And I did not read it, so I am guilty of my first 'pseudo' blacklist.

But I will not agree with you on the latter. When I see racism, bigotry, sexism, homophobia, or any other ism/phobia, I confront it. I already stated in a previous blog that I do not tolerate intolerance in my blog, and yes, I will confront it on others. They have their right to express their bigotted views, and delete my comments. But I would be a hypocrit if I let racism/sexism/Homophobia/bigotry slide without confronting it. We will not agree on that point, nor will I back down from doing so.

Manopeace

on Jan 21, 2005

But I would be a hypocrit if I let racism/sexism/Homophobia/bigotry slide without confronting it. We will not agree on that point, nor will I back down from doing so.

Then limit your responses to registered users only...thereby eliminating most of satans disciples...the rest you can blacklist.

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