Catholic Misconceptions

Published on November 2, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I am putting this under religion because lately there has been a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism.

Now I will be the first to say that I don't understand all other religions, but I am willing to and have learned from the believers of said religions. And when I am wrong, call me on it, although as I don't assume about other religions much, I don't guess I will get many calls.

But lately, someone has decided Catholicism is a cult! And they listed reasons, 6 of 7 wrong! and the 7th? Something practiced by all Christian, Judiasm and Muslim religions! I guess that makes 3/4 of the world a sect! Duh!

Today we are going to discuss Annulment. For those who know the truth, fine. This is for the other 75% who don't have a clue, including many Catholics!

In Catholicism, we believe that when a man marries a woman, and it is blessed by the church, the love of Christ has entered into the union. And I suspect every one hopes that as well. But we must promise that we will allow that love to guide us in raising our children! Yep, that may be Cultish, but one of the promises is to raise the children Catholic!

Now all is well for 1, 2 5, 10 20 years. And then Mommy and Daddy get divorced! Something went wrong! Indeed it did, although, yep! I was totally clueless (My family was not).

So I got a divorce. I found out, via her shrink, for a non event about her brother raping her (he did not, they were just....well...I did not know it when I married her, and not until the divorce)., that she never loved me.

Excuse me? I spent 20 years of my life married (plus a couple dating)! But that was an epiphany. And no, it was not a spite thing. This was her shrink! (she still needs one BTW).

So we divorced. I should have known she was and is a complete psycho! her mother is and was! But I thought we could be peaceful! hehehehehe! yea I am stupid!

So you see the set up. The Judge nailed her and her quota kid lawyer to the wall! (Never hire a quota kid if you want to win).

So she jumps in bed with some witless wonder, and I am sitting on a bunch of assets, and a lot of income. Only child support now!

Then I met a goddess! A woman who loves me, and yea she bitch slaps me (Note for Trudy - it is not always bad) when I deserve it (and sometimes when I don't). We marry years later. But her family is Catholic. She is not a good one, but once a Catholic, always a Catholic!

So I do the Annulment thing. It was long but not hard, as since my first wife never loved me (she used me to get away from an abusive situation), it was never in doubt. I did not lie (I did not have to). And she never contested it (although her stories to the kids leave a lot to be desired).

Why was the annulment so easy? Did it make my children bastards?

The answer to the first is simple. You cannot have the love of Christ in your Marriage when one party lied at the vows! And the second part is just as easy. No they are not. We were married, legally and in the eyes of the church. But Man is not infallible, and they need to acknowledge their errors.

The Church did. period.

So all you who get on your horse about annulment, chill! It has nothing to do with bastardization! It has nothing to do with making something disappear!

it has everything to do with realizing that sometimes, marriages are flawed from the get go!

So if you want to hate my religion, please do so for the right reasons! not for some ignorant ones.

Comments (Page 8)

106

Dr Guy

on Nov 10, 2005

Yes, the new ones are as well. The old ones were gorgeous sepia toned works. Very moving.

Growing up in the Tridentine era, we went to a church that I could only consider a Cathedral. But after 10 years of nomadic military Brat life, College, and then moving to what at the time was considered 'Missionary' country (about 3% Catholics), I have not been to one since except when a friend died. And that one was the Diocesan Parish. Still, I dont recall seeing stations that size, but as a young lad, I could have missed them.

107

KFC

on Nov 10, 2005

To Nadeon.....it's not having the statue that's the problem...it's the praying to it that is. And don't tell me that's not done....cuz as a former RCC I know better. Do you pray to the saints?

Josephus was not a pius Christian, he was a Jew....his writings are an external proof that actually quite nicely backs up scripture. I see him quoted quite often....and it's especially helpful for those that doubt the inerrrancy of scripture. He backs up the names, places and happenings that corroborate Paul and the others. He was a historian, not an Apostle.

Oh and you're right about the priests getting cranky if you know more than they......that's why my mom left the RCC, cuz she was told not to read the scriptures.

108

Dr Guy

on Nov 10, 2005

To Nadeon.....it's not having the statue that's the problem...it's the praying to it that is. And don't tell me that's not done....cuz as a former RCC I know better. Do you pray to the saints?

Then you have indeed forgotten. No one prays to them. We do not even pray at them. We do ask for assistance to magnify our prayers from saints. If you are truly an ex RCC, then you would know that.

As for Josephus, I see a debate. Now is the time to crank out the big guns, and get some documentation on him. I plead ignorance. I invite both of you to present supporting documentation (Nadeon has started). Then let us decide. is that not best?

As for your mother. I am sorry. I am almost 50, and never have I been told that, even during my PYOC days (by the Church).

109

KFC

on Nov 10, 2005

Well Mom's almost 70 and her grandmother (French Catholic) thought it heresy to say that Jesus was a Jew......she hated the Jews. In the old days it was not cool to read the bible....alot has changed (for the good I might add) and it's no longer taboo to read scripture.

As far as not praying.... but only asking assistance from the saints? Now how is that done? And why on earth would you talk to a dead person? How did Jesus show you to pray?

110

Dr Guy

on Nov 10, 2005

Well Mom's almost 70 and her grandmother (French Catholic) thought it heresy to say that Jesus was a Jew

French Catholic here as well! But I was never told that! I am sorry for your mother and grandmother. Perhaps you have heard of the Fagets? As in Max, and Guy (note the similarity).

As for asking a SAINT to help you. Do you not ask others to "pray for eric in his hour of need"? Are Saints any less of a power? If I cannot pray for you. then you are right. St. Mary cant pray for us either!

111

KFC

on Nov 10, 2005

oh and to add to what Nadeon wrote above......

Josephus's life is beset with ambiguity. For his critics, he never satisfactorily explained his actions during the Jewish war — why he failed to commit suicide in Galilee in 67 with some of his compatriots, and why, after his capture, he cooperated with the Roman invaders. Hence, many have viewed Josephus as a traitor and informer and questioned his credibility as an historian — dismissing his works as Roman propaganda or as a personal apologetic, aimed at rehabilitating his reputation in history.

Nevertheless, he was unquestionably an important apologist in the Roman world for the Jewish people and culture, particularly at a time of conflict and tension. He always remained, in his own eyes, a loyal and law-observant Jew. He went out of his way both to commend Judaism to educated pagans, and to insist on its compatibility with cultured Graeco-Roman thought. He constantly contended for the antiquity of Jewish culture, presenting its people as civilised, devout and philosophical.

Significance to scholarship
The works of Josephus provide crucial information about the First Jewish-Roman War. They are also important literary source for understanding the context of the Dead Sea Scrolls and post-Second Temple Judaism.

Josephus offers information about individuals, groups, customs and geographical places. He makes references to the Sadducees, Jewish High Priests of the time, Pharisees and Essenes, the Herodian Temple, Quirinius's census, and to such figures as Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great, Agrippa I and II, John the Baptist, James (the brother of Jesus) and a brief and highly disputed reference to Jesus himself. Along with Philo of Alexandria, he is an important source for studies of immediate post-Temple Judaism and early Christianity.

112

KFC

on Nov 10, 2005

Well you can pray for me (and I covet all prayers) but there's a difference between one who is alive and one who is dead. Solomon said "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love and their hatred and their envy is now perished neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun." Ecc 9:4-6

Basically he's saying here that the living do have an advantage over the dead. The dead have no further opportunities of seccuring compensation for their labors and they no longer share in life on this earth.

So while I covet the prayers of any living person..I know the futility of asking for help from the dead.

113

Nadeon

on Nov 10, 2005

KFC
Please be kind enough to cite your sources if you wish to engage in a debate.
While you are searching please check the term "Communion of the Saints". And please dear heart, check comment #99 for my positin on statues.

I was a member and Deacon in thhe Christian Reformed Church (derivative of the Dutch Reformed Church), for quite a spell during my days of wandering in and out of my own spiritual wastelands. I am very aware of Catholic baiting when I see it. For an insight check out The Canons of Dordtdrecht and the Belgic Confessions.

The Apostle Paul already addressed you and your ways. Please see Hebrews 5:8-12.
And please remember, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." and "How can you remove the speck from your brother's eye when you can't see the beam in your own?"

114

Nadeon

on Nov 10, 2005

Growing up in the Tridentine era

Doc, my First Communion Missle is in Latin, I still have it by the way. When I became an Alter Boy, my responses were in Latin as well. St. John's Cathedral in our area still has one Tridentine Mass a Sunday. I guess it helps that the Archbishop is an old Irishman!!

115

KFC (kicking for Christ)

on Nov 10, 2005

Sorry Nadeon but is this how you answer....by throwing verses out of context at me? What did I say that offended you? Where did I judge anyone here wrongly? Hebrews 5 doesn't fit anything here that I can think of. Here the subject matter is Christ coming in the order of Melchisedec and these Hebrews by now having been believers long enough should be ready to understand this teaching about Melchisedec. They should now be understanding of the deeper truths of the word.

We are called to judge but not in hypocricy or malice. Finish the rest of what you quoted...don't stop there....that's a very common tactic....many know these two verses in Matt 7:1-2 but never heard of v5 which continues....."Thou hypocrite first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shall thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Christ never said not to judge....but to do so rightly. First you did not accurately give the details on Josephus and now you give half a scripture reference to make your point.

See I've been around too......many, many groups and cults and I know how they operate. They pick and choose and build a theology.......you gotta ask yourself and I do all the time.....do I want my opinion (or group) or do I want the truth? I am a truth seeker. Even if it hurts....that's what I'm after. Many opinions and groups out there....but only one truth. I'm a junkyard dog with a bone......

116

Dr Guy

on Nov 11, 2005

Along with Philo of Alexandria, he is an important source for studies of immediate post-Temple Judaism and early Christianity.

I see you regard him highly.

117

Dr Guy

on Nov 11, 2005

Solomon said

Solomon is also OT, where they are still barred from Heaven. So I can see where the Jews do not beleive in Saints, but Catholics, and most Protestant religions do. And who better to pray for you than those who have already attained the Kingdon of God?

118

Dr Guy

on Nov 11, 2005

Doc, my First Communion Missle is in Latin,

So is mine!

I still have it by the way. When I became an Alter Boy, my responses were in Latin as well. St. John's Cathedral in our area still has one Tridentine Mass a Sunday. I guess it helps that the Archbishop is an old Irishman!!

We have a couple of Churches that do the Latin mass around here as well. But in an area that covers 2/3rds of a state, there may be 5 masses in latin each week, so it is not common. I suspect it is for our parents who hated to give up what they grew up with, and I suspect it will eventually die out.

Fortunately, by the time I was an alter boy (Middle School), the masses were in English, so my latin is severely lacking!

119

Dr Guy

on Nov 11, 2005

many, many groups and cults and I know how they operate. They pick and choose and build a theology.......y

Yet is that not what every denomination does? How else to explain the differences between Baptists and Presbyterians? I dont judge any of them false. But we are all blind men trying to figure out what we are touching, and none of us can touch the whole elephant. That does not mean that any of us are wrong, just that none of us have grasped the whole truth and probably will not until our re-union with God in Heaven (should we be worthy).

120

KFC

on Nov 11, 2005

Well I agree somewhat here with you doc...but I do believe there are groups out there (few and far between) that are sincerely seeking the truth and have put their own opinions (pride) aside to do this. I think the two you mentioned are two that do. I could go to either of those two denominations and be quite happy in their fellowship. Of course alot depends on the individual Pastor in these churches and from there on down how the church operates with he as the head of the local body.

The difference between the two groups you mentioned for the most part is just about worship. One is more formal and the other is more simple. Some like the liturgy and some don't. Doesn't make either right or wrong.

But after being around and involved in many churches and denominations out there over the years I think a good bible believing church is hard to find nowadays. Even for the Catholic faith. My very good friend is a strong Catholic and she has left many of her (what she calls too liberal) Catholic churches for a small one with a Pastor that is true to her faith in the CC.

Remember I believe the church is ecclesia which means "called out ones." I am not a denominationalist.....believing that's a man made concept and has nothing with having a corner on the truth.

Oh and Doc....Jesus is the same in the OT as he is in the NT. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The OT saints (and I believe in saints) were saved just as we are today. They were saved looking forward to the cross as we are saved looking back at the cross.

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