Wrong President?

on Jan 26, 2005

OMG...thats sooooooooo mean! No cookies or TV for you today!

I am not alone in that thought.

Former President Bill Clinton was much more amiable than his wife Hillary. Often the Secret Service would cringe at the verbal attack antics that Hillary would use against her husband, the then President. They were embarrassed for his sake by the manner and frequency in which she verbally insulted him, sometimes in the presence of the Secret Service, and sometimes behind closed doors. Even behind closed doors Hillary Clinton would scream and holler so loudly that everyone could hear what she was saying.

Many felt sorry for President Clinton and most people wondered why he tolerated it instead of just divorcing his "attack dog" wife. It was crystal clear that the Clintons neither liked nor respected each other and was true long before the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Theirs was genuinely a "marriage of convenience."

Chelsea was much closer to her father than her mother, even after the Lewinsky scandal which hurt her gravely.

Bill Clinton did in fact have "charisma," and occasionally would smile at or shake hands with his security detail. Still, he always displayed an obvious air of superiority towards them. His security detail uniformly believed him to be disingenuous, false, and that he did nothing without a motive that in some way would enhance his image and political career. They did respect him, unlike his wife, but they did not particularly like him and nobody trusted him. He was polite, but not kind.

17

ParaTed2k

on Jan 26, 2005

How many shades of purple did you turn because I dared to bring up Bill and his women?

Dabe didn't turn any shades of Purple. How do you turn a color that doesn't exist?? ;~D

18

greggbert

on Jan 26, 2005

Why is Hillary Clinton upset with the rise of abortions? I thought abortions weren't wrong. If anything, she should be happy that people are having abortions so the teen pregnancy rate won't rise.

Actually, she has never said they weren't wrong. She said that the government should not dictate whether or not a woman can choose to have one. Many tens of millions of Americans agree with this viewpoint.

The real hypocracy is that pro-life Republicans like bush also reject proven contraceptive methods that can reduce unwanted pregnancy and and abortion rates. In fact when bush became president he directed that the national institutes of health and the US surgeon general web sites be stricken of any reference to condoms and condom use. (Source: Consumer Reports January, 2005)

19

drmiler

on Jan 26, 2005

Reply #18 By: greggbert - 1/26/2005 9:40:52 PM
Why is Hillary Clinton upset with the rise of abortions? I thought abortions weren't wrong. If anything, she should be happy that people are having abortions so the teen pregnancy rate won't rise.

Actually, she has never said they weren't wrong. She said that the government should not dictate whether or not a woman can choose to have one. Many tens of millions of Americans agree with this viewpoint.

The real hypocracy is that pro-life Republicans like bush also reject proven contraceptive methods that can reduce unwanted pregnancy and and abortion rates. In fact when bush became president he directed that the national institutes of health and the US surgeon general web sites be stricken of any reference to condoms and condom use. (Source: Consumer Reports January, 2005)

This is BS Here is a *DIRECT* cut and paste from the surgeon generals page.

We are also using the ABC approach as part of our response to the epidemic. Developed in the East African country of Uganda, where the ABC approach has meant a significant decline in HIV and AIDS, we are now taking their lead in a common-sense effort to reduce HIV transmissions here.

ABC stands for Abstinence, Be Faithful, and Use Condoms. We are encouraging young people to delay sexual activity. We are reminding those who are already in relationships of the importance of faithfulness and monogamy. And we are encouraging those who engage in high-risk behavior to use condoms consistently and correctly, each and every time they have sex.

Now try again.
Link Under what are we doing.

20

Dr Guy

on Jan 27, 2005

The real hypocracy is that pro-life Republicans like bush also reject proven contraceptive methods that can reduce unwanted pregnancy and and abortion rates

I have 4 children. The first was conceived when their motehr was on the pill, the second was conceived using a diphram, the third using the sponge, and the last using rubbers. I love them all, and am glad I had them (we were just trying to plan better).

Simple fact? Contraception is not 100%. The only thing that is is abstinance.

You dont have to support abortion to understand that.

Oh, and as for 'permanent' types of contraception? A co worker had a vasectomy last year. His wife just got pregnant again.

21

dabe

on Jan 27, 2005

Of course contraception isn't 100%. Abstinence is 100% only when it's followed, which is unlikely when teens are dealing with raging hormones. The fact is, that if contraception techniques are taught properly, their effectiveness is very high, and those techniques should be taught, along with the fact that they are not 100% . As an example, my daughter became pregnant while taking birth control pills. Unfortunately, the doctors nor any medical experts told her that taking antibiotics at the same time reduces the effects of the pills. Minor detail, don't ya think? Maybe a bit of education would have been helpful. I now have a wonderful grandson as a result of that pregnancy. He is the love of my life, and that's wonderful. But, had my daughter been educated, she likely would not have conceived him. What she did after conception was HER choice.

Abstinence is but one tool in the toolbox for people to practice to avoid pregnancies. It's not the only one, and trying to teach it as the only option is merely sticking your head in the sand, and is very disrespectful of the kids who are living with their raging hormones. You're taking them all for fools. It astounds me that the same people who advocate illegalizing abortions are the same fools who want to limit the ways that can prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The hypocrasy is astounding.

All I can say to you, Dr Guy, is either you have superpowered sperm, you were very (un)lucky, you just didn't use the methods correctly, or your wife was taking antibiotics. So, what's the rest of the story? Care to share?

22

Dr Guy

on Jan 27, 2005

All I can say to you, Dr Guy, is either you have superpowered sperm, you were very (un)lucky, you just didn't use the methods correctly, or your wife was taking antibiotics. So, what's the rest of the story? Care to share?

Cant be the latter, so it may be the former as all my children are in the Honor Society, so maybe just super smart ones.

The real reason? Birth control does not work 100% of the time. Period. Raging hormones or none, every time they have sex, they are playing russian roulette as they are having sex with every partner their partner has had sex with. And the least of their worries is a pregnancy.

There is something called tough love. Teach it, learn it, do it. Or the next funeral may be your childs.

23

greggbert

on Jan 27, 2005

Are you guys trying to argue that pro-life republicans DO or DON'T support birth control? Because there are lots of examples of those idiots. (and by idiots I mean only the ones that hate abortion AND birth control.)

Damn that's weird about the Surgeon general's web site. Anyway, you can check that consumer reports. There is a little callout article about the president's anti-condom actions in the condom rating issue that came out January (or late December) and they mention the web sites.

-G

24

shadesofgrey

on Jan 27, 2005

If there was ever a reason to support abortion, it was in the case of Mrs. Rodham, about 55 years ago!

Sorry, but that's just not funny--and don't tell me I don't have a sense of humor. I'm just plain old tired of attacking people instead of issues. You can hate what Hillary says all you'd like, but wishing a retroactive abortion on her is just plain cruel.

Why is Hillary Clinton upset with the rise of abortions? I thought abortions weren't wrong. If anything, she should be happy that people are having abortions so the teen pregnancy rate won't rise.

Let's just clarify here--being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion. Simply because I think that the government does not have jurisdiction over my body does not mean that I am going to run out and have abortions willy-nilly.

The comments seem to suggest that people think that the majority of women having abortions are teenagers unable to contain their hormones. That is not true. Since the early 1990s more than forty percent of abortions are performed on women over the age of 25.

My first article here was called "Women Deserve Better than Abortion." You can read it at this Link if you'd like.

25

shadesofgrey

on Jan 27, 2005

Unlike NARAL, I dont beleive in post partum abortions. Sorry, you have the wrong guy.

I didn't say post-partum (which we are going to agree to disagree on anyway--you should actually read up on NARALs website before you put words in their mouth--we've actually had this conversation before), I said, "retroactive." Which is exactly what you implied in your comment.

Sorry, my point still stands--it wasn't funny.

26

Dr Guy

on Jan 27, 2005

Sorry, but that's just not funny--and don't tell me I don't have a sense of humor. I'm just plain old tired of attacking people instead of issues. You can hate what Hillary says all you'd like, but wishing a retroactive abortion on her is just plain cruel.

Unlike NARAL, I dont beleive in post partum abortions. Sorry, you have the wrong guy.

27

Dr Guy

on Jan 27, 2005

I didn't say post-partum (which we are going to agree to disagree on anyway--you should actually read up on NARALs website before you put words in their mouth--we've actually had this conversation before), I said, "retroactive." Which is exactly what you implied in your comment.

Sorry, my point still stands--it wasn't funny.

Sorry, i dont buy into platitudes, I go for actions. They stood against Ca when they wanted to do a double murder charge against Scott Peterson. Even tho, at the time, and even today, it is not known if his son was born before or after the act.

and saying I wish someone had never been born may not be funny if you think she is the smartest woman on this planet, but that is not mean, and I had no hahas after it, so it was not funny. Simply put, there are many people that, had they not been born (Stalin, Jack the Ripper, Son Of Sam), the world would have been better off for.

My Opinion? We would be better off if she had not been born.

28

dabe

on Jan 27, 2005

Post partum abortions????!!!!

That's pretty funny.

29

messybuu

on Jan 27, 2005

Let's just clarify here--being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion. Simply because I think that the government does not have jurisdiction over my body does not mean that I am going to run out and have abortions willy-nilly.

One doesn't have to want more abortions, but wanting less abortions, even though nothing's wrong with abortions? Why?

The comments seem to suggest that people think that the majority of women having abortions are teenagers unable to contain their hormones. That is not true. Since the early 1990s more than forty percent of abortions are performed on women over the age of 25.

Either way, it's less unwanted pregnancies, and isn't that what we all want?

30

ParaTed2k

on Jan 28, 2005

Let's just clarify here--being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion.

Pure and unadulterated BS!!! "Pro Choice" is nothing more than a buzzword that means "Pro Abortion on Demand". Saying that it doesn't flies in the face of reason, logic and truth. When a person says they are "Pro Choice" they are expressing an opinion that, while they may or may not consider abortion right for them, they want the option legally open for others. So, they are, in reality, Pro Abortion on demand.

Of course, the buzzwords are not restricted to the pro side of the abortion issue. "Pro Life" works the same way. People who say they are "Pro Life" are against abortion on demand. They may be for abortion in specific situations, so they can' t really say they are "anti abortion". They aren't really "pro life" either, since they are willing to allow for a few reasons to kill a fetus. Especially if they fall into the rhetoric of "abortion is murder". Of course, there are those who are against abortion in any situation, but I guess their willing to see the mother die, just to aviod an abortion, so there's not much pro life in that either.

I guess my point is, we should say what we mean and just dump all the "buzzword" stupidity.