Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on January 26, 2006 By Dr Guy In International

Recently we have seen several elections in countries around the world that have tilted left and right.  And some seem to think that is an indication of America's policies and influence.  Venezuela and Bolivia tilt left.  Canada Tilts right.  So all are an indication of the approval or disapproval of the current American administration.

But is it?  In America, we have a saying.  "All Politics are local."  What that means is that while people may agree or disagree with what the current trend of the national administration is doing, when it comes to voting for their representatives and Senators, that seems to go out the window.  And indeed, with minor exceptions that is the case.  We have conservative Senators in liberal states, and liberal senators in Conservative states (due to gerrymandering, the reps are indicative of their constituency).

So it really is not a reflection, as perhaps in the past it was, of the leadership of the president.  Once upon a time, as many Europeans and other non-Americans have noted, the difference between the 2 parties was not clear cut.  6 of one, half dozen of the other.  But since the Reagan revolution, the 2 parties have pretty much defined who they are and they are clear choices.  Much like other nations.

But what about foreign countries?  Did Canada elect a conservative government due to America?  Did Bolivia elect a liberal one for the same reason?

I don't think so.  I think, like in America, all Politics are local.  They elected their majorities due to issues in their countries.  And for the most part, America, and the Bush administration has said "well done, and now let's work together".  Some have spat on that proffer, but did America take notice?

Not really.  We looked at the elections and nodded our heads, and did not take credit, or blame.  The administration is still willing to work with whatever government that is elected, and like foreign governments, we have our differences.  Venezuela and Bolivia seem to be basing their policies on "Let's see how we can goad America".  So Cindy Sheehan runs down there to get a photo op and try to relive that 15 minutes. 

And America Abides.  We don't run over to Germany or up to Canada and declare that now we are in solidarity.  No, we work for our goals and when they are in sync with other countries, we are bosom buddies.  When not, we are trying to unseat them!

Neither of which is true.  We try to work with all, and they can use America as their whipping boy to incite their population, and we abide.  They can try to use their election of an affirmation of America, and yet we still have differences.

There is no such thing as 'friends' in the community of nations.  There is only a commonality of goals of the nations.  Hence why we supported Stalinist USSR during WWII (and no one would say we were bosom buddies).

While many like to look at America as the land of Black Helicopters and a super strong CIA that can change regimes at will (then why did we not do that in Iran, Iraq and North Korea?), the truth is we may root for one guy or another, but when all is said and done, we accept the other nations decision and move on.  The only ones obsessing over the whole thing are those that tenuously hold onto power and need a bogeyman to keep themselves in power.

Yesterday, Palestine elected a decidedly not friendly government.  Was it due to hatred of America?  or was it due to dissatisfaction with the former regime?  I think the latter.

In the end, who other nations elect does not really matter to America.  Only how we work with them.  France is governed by a 'conservative' government, yet I don't see them being bosom buddies with us!  Our relations are strained. 

As they are will the very liberal Venezuela.  Bolivia is too concerned right now with just figuring out how to govern to worry about anything more than pontificating.

So if you want to, celebrate your victories and stick that needle in the eye of America.  Or mourn your losses and blame America.  The truth is we will work with you whomever you elect.  We may not agree with you, but then we make our own laws, and you make yours.  And I don't hear this administration 'backing' any candidate in any foreign election.

The cold war is Over.  We don't care if you want to run your country into the ground.  That is YOUR choice.  Not ours to make.  Great Britain is not an Imperialistic nation, although it was at one time.  America is not supporting Banana republic Dictators, although it did at one time.

Stop living in the past.


Comments
on Jan 26, 2006
The maxim of Canadian politics is more "kick the last government out" rather than "elect a new ideology".
on Jan 26, 2006

The maxim of Canadian politics is more "kick the last government out" rather than "elect a new ideology".

Actaully, after 13 years?  I dont think so.  But I do not think that Harper's victory has anything to do with Ameria either.  Just as I dont think the German one did or the Bolivian one did.  Chavez may have made it one, but I dont think he got there that way.

Simply put, America does not care!  And some cant accept that. Yet.

on Jan 26, 2006
Simply put, America does not care! And some cant accept that. Yet.


Hmmm, I wonder if America would care if we up here decided to really go left and elect a communist government?

They might care, just a little bit maybe.
on Jan 26, 2006

Hmmm, I wonder if America would care if we up here decided to really go left and elect a communist government?

They might care, just a little bit maybe.

Why?  You hit the core point.  Are you going to spy for the Soviet union?  It does not exist.  Are you going to spy for the Chinese?  Note the difference.  Chinese.  Not Union.  They dont care about you!

You see?  China is trying to be America without being free!  They are not trying to be the Soviet Union!  The UNION.

that was what the cold war was about.  And it is gone!

Go communist!  You still have to feed your people!  So you will do business!

Gotcha!

on Jan 27, 2006


So if you want to, celebrate your victories and stick that needle in the eye of America. Or mourn your losses and blame America. The truth is we will work with you whomever you elect. We may not agree with you, but then we make our own laws, and you make yours. And I don't hear this administration 'backing' any candidate in any foreign election.


Bush has already stated that he will NOT work in any way with Hamas.

Washington has to accept the fact that it no longer can play the big bully role. Despite its efforts to discredit Hamas and to try keeping them off the ballot, the Palestinians chose them as their representatives. This is a fact that both Israel and the United States will have to accept and live with.
But, all in all, a pretty good analysis Doc... honest and to the point. Thanks for that.
on Jan 27, 2006

Washington has to accept the fact that it no longer can play the big bully role. Despite its efforts to discredit Hamas and to try keeping them off the ballot, the Palestinians chose them as their representatives. This is a fact that both Israel and the United States will have to accept and live with.


And they will. The Arab Palestinians have voted for a party that wants the destruction of Israel. America and Israel (and the world) should accept that and react accordingly.

The Arab Palestinians have spoken. It was their right and their privilege. Now we know who we are dealing with. They do not want peace.

I support what I think will be Kadima's plan:

1. Finish the wall.

2. Keep a few "settlements" on the Westbank as reparations for the constant wars against Israel.

3. Withdraw all troops from the remaining "Palestine" and let them do whatever they want.

Basically it's complete independence for "Palestinians" and a wall around them to keep them away from the rest of us.

You are right, the Arab Palestinians chose their representatives. They made their choice. And Israel should respect that.

If the Arabs want peace, Israel should respect it. If they want war, Israel should respect that too.

Or perhaps the choice should be Israel's, not the Arabs'?
on Jan 27, 2006
It's funny, when I talk to people from other countries, they usually have an opinion of Prs. Bush, but rarely does that opinion seem to matter when they talk about their own country.

I think there are things that go on here in the U.S. that affect people's votes in their own country, but for the most part, I think they don't give him (or us) a second thought at voting time.
on Jan 27, 2006

Bush has already stated that he will NOT work in any way with Hamas.

I pointedly did not mention Palestine since it is not really a nation yet.  And he did say he would not work with them UNTIL they renounced their terrorism.  Which is true.  The Axis of evil is basically a string of nations that are terroristic, and hence not part of the "do what you want, we'll keep a light on' analysis.

It is not only the US, but many other nations that are telling Hamas to shape up.  And it will not be the US that does anything other than ignore them (I think you know who will do the slapping if it comes to that).

on Jan 27, 2006

If the Arabs want peace, Israel should respect it. If they want war, Israel should respect that too.

That really is the Hamas thing in a nut shell.  If Palestine refuses to renounce war, what is a country to do but respond in kind?  It would be suicidal for Hamas to maintain their current manifesto.

on Jan 27, 2006

It would be suicidal for Hamas to maintain their current manifesto.


No, it isn't. They know exactly that declaring war on Israel is fine, because Israel's response will be regarded as an attack on innocent people by the UN.
on Jan 27, 2006

No, it isn't. They know exactly that declaring war on Israel is fine, because Israel's response will be regarded as an attack on innocent people by the UN.

I will agree and disagree with you.  Yes on the UN part, but no on the suicide part.  Israel is not one of the nations that kowtows to the UN on matters of security.

on Jan 27, 2006

Israel is not one of the nations that kowtows to the UN on matters of security.


No nation does. Only Israel is expected to.