Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on January 5, 2006 By Dr Guy In Current Events

Having married a wonderful lady who just happens to me Mexican has been an eye opener for me in many ways.  Having lived and grown up in California, it was not like I was a stranger to Latinos, indeed as we moved from Post to post, some of my best friends were Mexican.  And I learned to love the cuisine! 

As I grew up, I was also made aware, through government pronouncements, that they were a separate race, and I accepted that as a fact as most people do.  But as the only thing that mattered to me was if you were "in" or not, (in as in a Military brat), I cared nothing for the color of my friends skin, only whether they were jerks (they come in all colors) or good friends.

But now I am learning, sometimes the hard way, that my wife is NOT Hispanic.  She is American whose mother came from Mexico!  Therefore, as a stratification, one can call her Mexican (dont do it derogatorily), or American, but not Hispanic of Mexican-American!

Why is she not Hispanic?  Hispanic is not a race.  It never has been really.  What the government so glibly did was decide that everyone born south of the Rio Grande, and all of their ancestors, were a race called Hispanics.  Never mind that the Spanish and Portuguese people were lumped into that pot, even tho they are some of the fairest skinned people in Europe!  Never mind that what the government is calling Hispanic is actually a mixture of 3 races - Caucasians, American (not plains) Indians, and blacks. 

But you see the Spaniards and Portuguese settlers of the new world did something different from the English Settlers.  They settled and intermarried with the native populations, after being quite mean to them (no worse than what the English did).  And in so doing, they "mixed" the races.  But that does not change the fact that they did not create a new race!  Did someone from the government recently decide that the offspring of Blacks and Caucasians was a new race?  Now wouldn't that be stupid?  But that is exactly what the pencil necks in DC did!  And in so doing, they are also stigmatizing a whole group of people, and indeed showing their own narrow minded bigotry in the process!

One of the stupidest things I have been witness to, and unfortunately I have seen it all too often, is to call in a Spanish speaking person to talk to a Brazilian!  While there are some similarities between Portuguese and Spanish, they are in no way the same language!  I use to work with a lady who was Mexican.  She married an American and came to work as our security officer.  Since she was fluent in Spanish (duh), the agency would call upon her to help whenever a Spanish speaking person came seeking assistance.  One day, a Gentleman from Brazil came, and they called her.  Needless to say, it was all Greek to her!

I think lumping everyone south of the border and from the Iberian peninsula as a distinct race is stupid and should be abolished.  Mexicans have no more in common with Colombians than we do!  Indeed, as I have found out (since I do most of the grocery shopping), Columbian Chorizo is not Mexican Chorizo, and El Salvadorian Tamales are not Mexican Tamales!  My wife likes to try different Mexican restaurants here in town, and we have found a favorite one.  But she had the misfortune of trying out one that advertised Mexican food, and it was not Mexican!  Upon questioning the waitress, it turns out the cook was from El Salvadore!  That would be like going to a Chinese restaurant and being served Thai food!  Both good, but hardly interchangeable.

So from now on, I am banning Hispanic from my vocabulary!  It is a racist stigma applied but a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats that dont know the difference between racism, and prejudice!  For apparently they suffer from the former.  My Wife is of Mexican ancestry.  And before that from Aztec and Spanish (and who knows what else) ancestry.  She is not Hispanic.

I would bet that most Mexicans, and indeed most central and south Americans already know that, which makes them much better informed than most Americans.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 05, 2006
Interesting article, Dr. Guy. My only quibble is that Brazilians and Portuguese speakers, by definition, are not hispanic. Hispanic means "Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America, or of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture."

Now, as for the government's "ethnicity" checklist--I've always been confused by that one--none of the categories seem to be on the same scale.
on Jan 05, 2006
That checklist needs to be revamped or done away with because it makes no sense at this point.

Asking a Spanish speaking person to translate Portuguese...heehee.....what a day that must have been!


I guess they (the bureaucrats) made up the word Hispanic when they were too lazy to define everyone as they are and should be. It's like some people saying that "all Blacks look alike" back in the day - and some still say it too! There are some very light skinned Spanish and some dark skinned ones as well.
on Jan 05, 2006

My only quibble is that Brazilians and Portuguese speakers, by definition, are not hispanic. Hispanic means "Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America, or of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture."

That is what it means to you and I, but try telling that to the government pencil necks!

on Jan 05, 2006

It's like some people saying that "all Blacks look alike" back in the day

That is the problem I have with the term Hispanics.  If you have an oppotunity to go to Mexico, do not be surprised to see some very fair skinned and red headed Mexicans!  I knew a lady who was blond hair, blue eyes, and she was hispanic.  Why?  Her name was Cheryl Lopez.

on Jan 05, 2006
My dad was of Mexican ancestry. I really do not know when his family first came to the US. I know that they all spoke Spanish and lived in Laredo, TX. My dad was a light skinned, green eyed Mexican. What made it interesting is that people would make derogotory remarks about Mexicans in front of him not knowing that he was Mexican by his looks. And Mexican would speak Spanish and make derogatory remarks and be shocked when he called them on it en espanol.

It is hard to be of a mixed race especially when you don't look that race at all but it's still a part of you. I had a woman tell me to change an application on base when I checked hispanic because I don't speak Spanish. So since I don't speak Spanish (well - I understand more than I can speak) my dad wasn't Mexican. It's just weird.
on Jan 05, 2006

It is hard to be of a mixed race especially

That is my point!  Hispanic is not a race!  In a pure state, it is as Shades said.  But the government has even corrupted that!

And as far as the government, as long as your surname is spanish, you are hispanic, no matter what you look like.  It is not weird!  It is just plain and utter stupidity on the part of the government!  And ignorant bozos like your dad had to deal with.

on Jan 05, 2006
The same could be said for saying "Native American" for everyone from Apaches to Seminole. If you go back far enough they have common ancestry, but they are about as similar as Russians and Americans.

The same with the stupid term "African American". Does that mean a White person of African descent, or a Black person of Lower Asian descent? And as we saw in a recent article where "African American" was used to describe Black people in France. ;~D

The fact is, there are so few people left that perfectly fit into one ethnic category that it's almost a waste of time to categorize (in anything more than general terms) at all. "White, Black, Non-white or Black". That's about all we're left with.
on Jan 05, 2006
Caucasian or white don't really work either. I for example have some aboriginal blood back down the line somewhere (I think a great-great grandmother or something like that). I'm pretty sure that according to the Australian government I qualify to claim aboriginal benefits, which is absurd. I am very white.

Also with white you lump in Germanic peoples (like the English and, surprisingly enough the Germans) with the French, the Spanish (whose skin is significantly darker), the Italians (look very different to English when you think about it) the Caucasians themselves, and depending on how far you take it Israelis and certain Turkish peoples.

Does that make any sense? I don't really see any point in measuring things according to racial background at all. I mean a Greek whitey is probably closer to a Egyptian black than they are to a Celtic Irishman. So statistics based entirely on race are just ludicrous in my mind. Better to get rid of all of them and use cultural signifiers if you want to talk about a specific group, rather than blaming success or failure on the colour of someone's skin and the assumption that it is a wellspring for culture.
on Jan 05, 2006

The same could be said for saying "Native American" for everyone from Apaches to Seminole. If you go back far enough they have common ancestry, but they are about as similar as Russians and Americans.

But Russians and English (Americans are not a race) are the same race!  Just as the Seminoles and Apaches!  Along with the Mayans, Aztecs, Toltecs, Incans and others native to the Americas!  Hispanic is a polyglot that has no basis in any rational debate!  They are as American as the rest of us Heinz 57s!  They just have a different surname! (and no, they are not darker than some of us!).

on Jan 05, 2006

the Spanish (whose skin is significantly darker),

I will pick on this, altho your whole response rates an excellent!

Actually, no.  The Spanish are some of the fairest skin in Europe!  Have you ever seen "Y Tu mama Tambien"?

But other than that, write on!

on Jan 05, 2006
Racial catergorisations are out-dated, incorrect and, particularly when used by our leaders, only highlight their ignorance. As Cactoblasta said
Better to get rid of all of them and use cultural signifiers if you want to talk about a specific group


Good article, Doc.
on Jan 05, 2006

Good article, Doc.

thank you!  And you get my second cookie of the day!

Damn!  Why are the idiots in charge of government so stupid, when us "dummies' can see the obvious?

on Jan 05, 2006
Thanks for the cookie, Doc. Much appreciated and tastes so good
on Jan 05, 2006
What made it interesting is that people would make derogotory remarks about Mexicans in front of him not knowing that he was Mexican by his looks. And Mexican would speak Spanish and make derogatory remarks and be shocked when he called them on it en espano


My husband experiences the same thing.

His mom is half Spanish, half Mexican. She has dark hair but fair skin (his aunt is blonde!). His dad is white.

Our youngest child looks more "Mexican" than my husband does. He's often been subjected to derogatory jokes and racial slurs by people who just assume that he's a white-bred Texan guy. You'd never guess his ancestry by looking at him. (He's one fine looking man, though!)

As far the categorizing goes, he usually checks "white" on those things because he looks white and doesn't have a "Hispanic" surname. He's missed out on scholarships and things like that because his mom is Mexican and not his dad. Silly.
on Jan 05, 2006
But Russians and English (Americans are not a race) are the same race! Just as the Seminoles and Apaches! Along with the Mayans, Aztecs, Toltecs, Incans and others native to the Americas! Hispanic is a polyglot that has no basis in any rational debate! They are as American as the rest of us Heinz 57s! They just have a different surname! (and no, they are not darker than some of us!).


Actually I used "Russian" and "American" because niether are a race, but are often used as such. Apaches and Seminoles (and pretty much any other tribe) do not consider themselves the same, although most tribes do acknowledge a common ancestry. But then again, if you go back far enough, don't we all? ;~D


I agree with Cacto and Forever... Culture has a lot more to do with differences than race.
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