Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on November 2, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I am putting this under religion because lately there has been a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism.

Now I will be the first to say that I don't understand all other religions, but I am willing to and have learned from the believers of said religions.  And when I am wrong, call me on it, although as I don't assume about other religions much, I don't guess I will get many calls.

But lately, someone has decided Catholicism is a cult!  And they listed reasons, 6 of 7 wrong! and the 7th?  Something practiced by all Christian, Judiasm and Muslim religions!  I guess that makes 3/4 of the world a sect!  Duh!

Today we are going to discuss Annulment.  For those who know the truth, fine.  This is for the other 75% who don't have a clue, including many Catholics!

In Catholicism, we believe that when a man marries a woman, and it is blessed by the church, the love of Christ has entered into the union.  And I suspect every one hopes that as well.  But we must promise that we will allow that love to guide us in raising our children!  Yep, that may be Cultish, but one of the promises is to raise the children Catholic!

Now all is well for 1, 2 5, 10 20 years.  And then Mommy and Daddy get divorced!  Something went wrong!  Indeed it did, although, yep!  I was totally clueless (My family was not).

So I got a divorce.  I found out, via her shrink, for a non event about her brother raping her (he did not, they were just....well...I did not know it when I married her, and not until the divorce)., that she never loved me.

Excuse me?  I spent 20 years of my life married (plus a couple dating)!  But that was an epiphany.  And no, it was not a spite thing.  This was her shrink! (she still needs one BTW).

So we divorced.  I should have known she was and is a complete psycho!  her mother is and was! But I thought we could be peaceful!  hehehehehe!  yea I am stupid!

So you see the set up.  The Judge nailed her and her quota kid lawyer to the wall! (Never hire a quota kid if you want to win).

So she jumps in bed with some witless wonder, and I am sitting on a bunch of assets, and a lot of income.  Only child support now!

Then I met a goddess!  A woman who loves me, and yea she bitch slaps me (Note for Trudy - it is not always bad) when I deserve it (and sometimes when I don't).  We marry years later.  But her family is Catholic.  She is not a good one, but once a Catholic, always a Catholic!

So I do the Annulment thing.  It was long but not hard, as since my first wife never loved me (she used me to get away from an abusive situation), it was never in doubt.  I did not lie (I did not have to).  And she never contested it (although her stories to the kids leave a lot to be desired).

Why was the annulment so easy?  Did it make my children bastards?

The answer to the first is simple.  You cannot have the love of Christ in your Marriage when one party lied at the vows!  And the second part is just as easy.  No they are not.  We were married, legally and in the eyes of the church.  But Man is not infallible, and they need to acknowledge their errors.

The Church did. period.

So all you who get on your horse about annulment, chill!  It has nothing to do with bastardization!  It has nothing to do with making something disappear!

it has everything to do with realizing that sometimes, marriages are flawed from the get go!

So if you want to hate my religion, please do so for the right reasons!  not for some ignorant ones.


Comments (Page 5)
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on Nov 04, 2005

Do I agree with everything they do? No, or I'd be Catholic. Sheesh.

But we will assimilate you!

But thank you for your response and clarification.  I understood your original response and I should have corrected shades, but she was on a horse!

on Nov 04, 2005

When I stopped to think about that it seemed to be saying that religion is in no wise exempt from all the usual arrogance, egotism, competitiveness and spite that we are able to bring to every other human activity. Sad, and probably true.

Probably because religion is an invention of man, who is notably fallible.  Whereas Faith is a relationship with God.

on Nov 04, 2005
I should have corrected shades, but she was on a horse!


Wow. I think I will remove myself from this conversation now. Wouldn't want to fall off that horse that I'm on.
on Nov 04, 2005
Wow. I think I will remove myself from this conversation now. Wouldn't want to fall off that horse that I'm on.


Yeah its a long way down.

But we will assimilate you!
But thank you for your response and clarification. I understood your original response and I should have corrected shades, but she was on a horse!


Buwuahaha. You know what's so funny about this whole thing? We move around A LOT and no matter where I move the first, oh, I'd say ten friends I make before finding a church family are almost without exception practicing CATHOLICS.....

I think it is funny because I love to debate and of course we CAN'T stay away from religion.....but we don't ever seem to get ugly about it.

There are things I do love about Catholics....

1. They build churches that boggle the mind in beauty and architecture. I don't care if you are Catholic or not...when you walk into a large church with lots of stained glass....you whisper. The reverence of the building in honoring God, I love it. I can't stand going to most new churches now days because they look like theaters instead of houses of worship. Half of them don't even bother hanging a cross! (That is my preference I know, but shesh).

2. I love the weddings...and growing up mostly Baptist, I love the PARTY afterward!! Oh yeah, I ALWAYS went to Catholic dances in high school because the chaperons always opened up the bar, not for us of course, but once they got tanked, we could do what we wanted.

3. Tradition. I like the stability of it. At least in the lives of the friends I have...

That's just off the top of my head......
on Nov 04, 2005
. [I have, on second thought, decided to censor myself]
on Nov 04, 2005

Wow. I think I will remove myself from this conversation now. Wouldn't want to fall off that horse that I'm on.

No, I really liked your response.  It was good.  But in Tova7's defense, she did not say she was like that, only that she had seen things like that.

on Nov 04, 2005

1. They build churches that boggle the mind in beauty and architecture.

The old ones.  The new ones are a testament to the new idea of liturgy being fellowship.  I like the antiques, but not to pray in.  I much prefer the new ones where the alter is in the middle of the congregation.

on Nov 04, 2005

[I have, on second thought, decided to censor myself]

That is always your perogative, but you know I do not mind any comment of yours. 

Thanks for visiting.  Please dont stay away.

on Nov 04, 2005
~~I still defend Catholics because when people talk about them they are talking about my grandma and my whole family. It does bother me when people bash Catholics. I guess that's the whole once a Catholic always a Catholic thing coming out.~~

Wow, locomama, my thoughts exactly. I don't agree with every thing the Catholic church teaches and expresses (I don't even go to church as regularly as I used to), but I still find alot of beauty (yes, beauty) in it...and I am not even speaking of the actual church...
I'm speaking of silent and soulful prayer I saw growing up, of candles being lit in prayer or honor, of the Virgen de Guadalupe my family is endeared of, of humility, and of a simple, but pure love for God.
on Nov 05, 2005

I'm speaking of silent and soulful prayer I saw growing up, of candles being lit in prayer or honor, of the Virgen de Guadalupe my family is endeared of, of humility, and of a simple, but pure love for God.

You do sound like my wife. As a practicing one, I am not here to convert or condemn.  Just to practice in peace.

on Nov 05, 2005

Wow, locomama, my thoughts exactly.

Just as an aside.  Thank you both for my sister on her birthday!

on Nov 07, 2005
Just found this site and haven't read all the replys but from a Christian point of view (non denominational) I would have to say that I believe if you want a Godly marriage or one that will stand the test of time....you need to consult the one who gave us the institution to begin with. Most people go into marriage without prayer...without consulting God to begin with. Then they wonder what went wrong. Those around me that have a strong faith with God in the center of their lives have the best marriages and families. Look around and you will see this. I think it's because they are living for God together and not for themselves. They are not self centered but God centered. They have a common goal...to follow God and try to be like he would want them to be.

I don't believe in the Catholic way of anulling marriages unless it falls into the category of adultery. Then I would agree because Jesus said there were two ways out of marriage....adultery or death.

on Nov 07, 2005
Me Again, I just had to respond to the Doc.....James was a Jew. Sorry to break the news to you on this. Also all the NT writers were.....gasp!!! Jews. They were not Catholics as you've been taught.

Also you are right on one thing, the NT beginning church did not have the NT but they did have the OT and the eyewittness accounts of the Apostles and others. The first church service saw 3000 souls get saved all on OT scriptures and the resurrection of Christ. That's the gospel. Before long tho the written word was put together (by these Jews) and by AD 90 the bible was fully written. That's for our benefit so we can't look God in they eye on Judgment Day and say.....I didn't know. Give me another chance. Life is sooooooooo short and eternity is soooooooo long. He's been very patient with us.
on Nov 08, 2005
if you want a Godly marriage or one that will stand the test of time....you need to consult the one who gave us the institution to begin with.


what about all the millions of marriages entered into before the institution was institutionalized? all societies--christian or otherwise--seem to have a state analogous to western marriage. i'd be willing to bet cultures where marriages are arranged and the partners have no say in the matter because they serve primarily to establish or strengthen clan or tribal bonds are no more fragile than modern american marriages.
on Nov 08, 2005

....you need to consult the one who gave us the institution to begin with. Most people go into marriage without prayer...without consulting God to begin with.

While not exactly what you advocate, before you can get married in the Catholic Church, you do have to go into a 'class' with Married couples so they can lead you through the spiritual and material aspects of what you are about to embark upon.  There is a lot of prayer involed.  Now, that does not mean you cant just 'go through the motions', but at least they are trying to prepare you both materially and spiritually for the sacrament.

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