Catholic Misconceptions

Published on November 2, 2005 By Dr Guy In Religion

I am putting this under religion because lately there has been a lot of misconceptions about Catholicism.

Now I will be the first to say that I don't understand all other religions, but I am willing to and have learned from the believers of said religions. And when I am wrong, call me on it, although as I don't assume about other religions much, I don't guess I will get many calls.

But lately, someone has decided Catholicism is a cult! And they listed reasons, 6 of 7 wrong! and the 7th? Something practiced by all Christian, Judiasm and Muslim religions! I guess that makes 3/4 of the world a sect! Duh!

Today we are going to discuss Annulment. For those who know the truth, fine. This is for the other 75% who don't have a clue, including many Catholics!

In Catholicism, we believe that when a man marries a woman, and it is blessed by the church, the love of Christ has entered into the union. And I suspect every one hopes that as well. But we must promise that we will allow that love to guide us in raising our children! Yep, that may be Cultish, but one of the promises is to raise the children Catholic!

Now all is well for 1, 2 5, 10 20 years. And then Mommy and Daddy get divorced! Something went wrong! Indeed it did, although, yep! I was totally clueless (My family was not).

So I got a divorce. I found out, via her shrink, for a non event about her brother raping her (he did not, they were just....well...I did not know it when I married her, and not until the divorce)., that she never loved me.

Excuse me? I spent 20 years of my life married (plus a couple dating)! But that was an epiphany. And no, it was not a spite thing. This was her shrink! (she still needs one BTW).

So we divorced. I should have known she was and is a complete psycho! her mother is and was! But I thought we could be peaceful! hehehehehe! yea I am stupid!

So you see the set up. The Judge nailed her and her quota kid lawyer to the wall! (Never hire a quota kid if you want to win).

So she jumps in bed with some witless wonder, and I am sitting on a bunch of assets, and a lot of income. Only child support now!

Then I met a goddess! A woman who loves me, and yea she bitch slaps me (Note for Trudy - it is not always bad) when I deserve it (and sometimes when I don't). We marry years later. But her family is Catholic. She is not a good one, but once a Catholic, always a Catholic!

So I do the Annulment thing. It was long but not hard, as since my first wife never loved me (she used me to get away from an abusive situation), it was never in doubt. I did not lie (I did not have to). And she never contested it (although her stories to the kids leave a lot to be desired).

Why was the annulment so easy? Did it make my children bastards?

The answer to the first is simple. You cannot have the love of Christ in your Marriage when one party lied at the vows! And the second part is just as easy. No they are not. We were married, legally and in the eyes of the church. But Man is not infallible, and they need to acknowledge their errors.

The Church did. period.

So all you who get on your horse about annulment, chill! It has nothing to do with bastardization! It has nothing to do with making something disappear!

it has everything to do with realizing that sometimes, marriages are flawed from the get go!

So if you want to hate my religion, please do so for the right reasons! not for some ignorant ones.

Comments (Page 4)

Dr Guy

on Nov 03, 2005

Fellowship? They say "turn and greet each other, saying peace"...so you turn, and say peace to 15 people. Thats not fellowship. Your buddies next to you dont ask if you need prayer. They dont gather around when you need to be lifted up and pray for you as a church or small group. There isnt a call at the end of the service to come up if you want to dedicate your life to christ or if you want prayer. They dont meet during the week to do a small group study of the Bible or to focus in prayer on God. Of course, there may be things at the church during advent where you can come in and take turns praying during a 24 hour period.

I am really tired of your ignorance and proselyting. I will leave you with this. First, there is a lot of fellowship, but we don't get up and jitterbug in the aisles if that is what you mean. We also don't speak in tongues. That you could not rejoice and share in the fellowship is not a shortcoming of the Catholic Church, but your own shortcoming.

I never said we only learned, and then only when the Eucharist was Consecrated. You show me where that is stated? But like the last supper, each Mass has a mini re-enactment of that event in the Eucharist.

So get off your horse. I am not even a Catholic Scholar, and have shot your arguments so full of holes, I dare say you whistle when you walk.

I am not going to convince you of your errors or cure you of your bigotry. So let it go. You cant win, you cant even mount a coherent debate. You can quote the bible. I will give you that. But then so can a lot of loons like Pat Robertson (better than you), Jim Bakker, Bob Jones and Jerry Falwell. Oh, and Jimmy Swaggert too. Is he out of the slammer yet?

EventHorizon

on Nov 03, 2005

If there had not been one, we would have had to invent it. For the Church of the Middle ages was not a god-like institution!

Catholics did not need to 'invent' a reformation and send splinter groups of 'Christians' off to start their own Churches.
Many of the clergy etc. in the middle ages were not 'God-like' (charging for indulgences and whatnot), but the Church itself as an institution was fine, and did not need to be 'reformed' on the scale that you suggest. (Although some of the leaders could definately have used some reprimanding, and possible excommunication)

The same applies nowadays. As mentioned in Sir Peter Anonymous's post, there are abusive priests, but that doesnt mean its right to smear the whole church for the wrongs of a few.
All people have free will regardless of their religion; and that means they can go and do things that are totally against their religion...But that doesnt mean their religion is bad, it just means THEY are bad.

...But I for one am glad that it was reformed and is now the Church it is. I could never be a Catholic, prior to Vatican II. I am glad it happened in my life time, and now the Church is one I have faith in and believe in because it does make sense to me. But it does not for all.

Vatican II and the Reformation are two totally different events... And why do you say you couldn't have been a Catholic before Vatican II?

Texas Wahine

on Nov 03, 2005

You can quote the bible. I will give you that. But then so can a lot of loons like Pat Robertson (better than you), Jim Bakker, Bob Jones and Jerry Falwell.

Haha. According to the Bible, Satan quotes Scripture as well.

I always think about that when I quote it. Hehe.

shadesofgrey

on Nov 03, 2005

but what I believe is this....there are Catholic Christians and I know a few!

Ya know. I always hate this conversation. I've been told one too many times that I am going to hell for being a Catholic. You see, people prefer to believe what they'd like than actually learn about the faith of others. For example, Tova, you say that Catholics pray to idols--by this I assume that you mean saints. But that's just wrong. We don't pray to saints (nor do we pray to Mary), but rather we ask that the saints and Mary pray on our behalf ("Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death."). It's no different than when Protestant congregations ask the entire church to pray for them during a Sunday service ("if we could all pray for Mrs. Jones who is in hospital with a terrible bout of the flu.").

Yes, Catholics do believe that Mary is without sin--because she was immaculately conceived. This is supported by Luke 1:28 when Gabriel greets Mary with "chaire kecharitomene" which means "full of grace." I don't think that maintaining a different reading of scripture makes Catholics any less Christian.

As for adding to scripture--I could argue that Protestants subtracted from scripture. I mean, the Bible was the Bible before Martin Luther started the Reformation, right?

But, see, these arguments are petty and ridiculous--much like your statement that "there are Catholic Christians, and I know a few." Catholics are Christians, plain and simple. Catholics, by dogma, believe that Christ died for our sins and through his death we have been saved.

Whatever you'd like to think about Catholics is your problem, but personally, I find Catholic bashing a bit on the offensive side (and saying that Catholics aren't Christians is bashing in my book).

Please, do not tell me what my church has taught me. Please do not pretend that Catholics can not possibly understand what it means to have a personal relationship with God. Please do not lecture me on what being a true Christian is. Just because the Catholic church doesn't work for you, doesn't mean that it's not working for others.

At the end of the day, people chose a church that makes them comfortable, but we all (all Christians, I should clarify) still believe in the same over-arching principle. And that principle is that Christ died for us and that our duty on earth is to live our lives in a way that is pleasing to him. I can't imagine that he would find bickering among churches or brow-beating nonbelievers to be pleasing.

Dr Guy

on Nov 03, 2005

You see I disagree. If not for the protestant reformation, there would have been no reason for the church to reform. The protestants broke away and that forced the church to look inward to figure out why.

Dr Guy

on Nov 03, 2005

Vatican II and the Reformation are two totally different events... And why do you say you couldn't have been a Catholic before Vatican II?

if you read all the comments, you would know I was not confusing the 2! I lived through Vatican II! I am not old enough to have gone through the reformation!

And why? Because the liturgy and the faith was steeped in mysticism. Sorry, my faith has to mean something to me. I am not going to stand and watch a shaman as he turns his back and performs hocus pocus. Once they decided to turn towards the congregation and engage them in the liturgy and allowed us to question, and answer those questions, then I came back.

But thank you for the question.

Dr Guy

on Nov 03, 2005

Haha. According to the Bible, Satan quotes Scripture as well.

Oh! Tex just launched a torpedo!

Dr Guy

on Nov 03, 2005

Reply By: shadesofgrey

Posted: Thursday, November 03, 2005

Woof! And a big thank you! that was really great! We may be on opposite sides in a political debate, but I got to say

You go girl!

Chakgogka

on Nov 03, 2005

Catholic bashing is part of our shared Anglo-American heritage, albeit a rather unpleasant one, as Sir Peter demonstrates humourously (?!) and ziggy rather less so.

An interesting historical side note on this. King George III (who lost the 13 colonies) steadfastly refused to allow Catholic Emancipation (the granting of full civil rights to catholics) because he claimed that he would be breaking his coronation oath in doing so. So, emancipation had to wait until 1829 during the reign of King George IV. Now, in the war of 1812, also during the reign of George III, many catholic French Canadians fought for the British crown. They did so because they believed (probably wrongly) that even the bigoted monarch in London was a better guarantor of their civil and religious rights than the Founding Fathers of their southern neighbour, which shows that the anti-catholic rhetoric in the young republic must have been pretty fierce! And it did take nearly 200 years for a catholic to be elected president of the USA.

Tomorrow, all over the UK, people will light fireworks and burn a traitor in effigy on top of a bonfire in celebration of the 400th anniversary of Guy Fawkes' unsuccessful catholic plot to blow up the House of Lords, with the King and all his ministers. Link In one English town they still have a 'quaint' old local custom of burning an effigy of the Pope on this night.

In the case of one nation, the hostility was a result of a puritan heritage that saw the New World as a chance to create a (protestant) New Jersualem, in the case of the other the animosity was at least as much political as religious. To a disturbing degree, although the bloody wars of religion are behind us, the national identity of both countries still contains a strong component of anti-catholic thought, although the separation of church and state in the US goes a long way to mitigate this.

I think it is perfectly legitimate to have differing religious opinions: it makes the world richer and more interesting. Nor do I necessarily acknowledge any duty to understand other religions - after all understanding one's own can often be hard enough. I can also see that those who believe that they have a unique handle on the truth will feel impelled to share that with the rest of us, however tiresome we may find it.

My final thought - I suppose an acknowledgement of where I stand - is that those religious traditions that are able to acknowledge the validity of other traditions are both spiritually and psychologically more mature than the others. But if that acknowledgement is too difficult, then a little charity and civility will suffice instead - after all, that seems to be a pre-requisite for all religious traditions.

Dr Guy

on Nov 04, 2005

An interesting historical side note on this. King George III (who lost the 13 colonies)

Just a side note, and not to get this to far afield, but how did Lord Baltimore manage to get a colony?

Tova7

on Nov 04, 2005

For example, Tova, you say that Catholics pray to idols--by this I assume that you mean saints.

Whoa BACK ON UP OFF ME shades of grey....

I said

So I have been to churches who teach Catholics aren't Christians because they pray to idols and think Mary was sinless, add to scripture, and on and on...you wouldn't believe some of the things...but what I believe is this....there are Catholic Christians and I know a few! Each person in every Christian denomination has to have an INDIVIDUAL relationship with Christ and believe Jesus is God, came died and rose from the grave. Ya know?

I said I have been to churches who teach that, I didn't say I BELIEVE it.

There are Christians in every denomination, and chaff in every denomination. I wasn't saying Catholics aren't Christians. You misread my whole reply.

I've said it before and I'll say it again so you are clear. I don't care WHAT you call yourself, or what church you attend. I believe if you have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour then you are a CHRISTIAN. Period. All the other junk is just that, junk. I don't believe for a minute Christ would have us arguing over the details.

I am not a Catholic basher. Do I agree with everything they do? No, or I'd be Catholic. Sheesh.

Chakgogka

on Nov 04, 2005

How did Lord Baltimore manage to get a colony?

I had to google this as I hadn't realised that Lord Baltimore, the 'Proprietary Governor' of Maryland in the seventeenth century, was a Catholic.

Briefly, (so as to not go too far afield), the First Baron Baltimore converted to Catholicism in 1625, whereupon he lost his political office of Secretary of State in England. However, as a reward for his services to the crown he was granted a Royal Charter for the province of Maryland, in addition to the charter he already held in Newfoundland where he had tried to found a 'haven for persecuted catholics'.

His son, The second Baron Baltimore (also a Catholic) never visited Maryland and had to rule through a Protestant deputy named William Stone. In fact during the rule of Oliver Cromwell the puritans did take Maryland away from him, but the grant was restored to his family in 1657.

The Third Baron Baltimore, who got into a dispute with William Penn about the borders of Maryland and Pennsylvania had his Royal Charter withdrawn in 1689, when the Catholic monarch James II was deposed and replaced by King William (III) and Queen Mary (II). The colony then transferred directly to the monarchy.

Chakgogka

on Nov 04, 2005

I do shake my head in disbelief when I see Christians of various sects arguing and condemning each other over petty differences in technique, tradition, and ritual.

That ought to go without saying, however I was forcibly struck by a reply I received from Dan Kaschel on his thread when he said:

People are what they are. What people believe rarely gives them kindness, tolerance, or compassion. When religion can do that for a person, a miracle has occurred.

When I stopped to think about that it seemed to be saying that religion is in no wise exempt from all the usual arrogance, egotism, competitiveness and spite that we are able to bring to every other human activity. Sad, and probably true.

shadesofgrey

on Nov 04, 2005

I am not a Catholic basher.

I'll agree to disagree with you on this one. I apologize if you thought I was attacking you--it wasn't my intention.

Dr Guy

on Nov 04, 2005

had to google this as I hadn't realised that Lord Baltimore, the 'Proprietary Governor' of Maryland in the seventeenth century, was a Catholic.

DOH! I should have done that! But thank you for taking the time.

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