Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
It does a body Good
Published on September 27, 2005 By Dr Guy In Blogging

My Wife and I had planned on taking a couple of weeks vacation to go to her Nephew's wedding in California since last March.  So we did.  Instead of writing a "see you later" or "I am done" article, I debated if I was going to say anything at all.  I will admit, that I did drop hints, and at least one person picked up on them, and I did tell one person What was going on.  But he kept it to himself.

I decided at the last moment to just go and not announce.  I have seen too many announcements made lately, and people, they are really sorry.  For those who have read this far, let me warn you, this is not going into the forums because I will name names, and I do not apologize for what I am about to write.  For it is my observations and analysis, and I will not hold punches.

That being said, the almost 2 weeks off was refreshing.  Time to clear the old head and get back to originality and see what was going on in the rest of the world.

Then I come back to more of the same.  Only Worse.

In just 2 articles today, I got a thumbnail sketch of what has been happening and it was disgusting.  Moderateman was pleading with people to keep things in perspective, and Little_Whip was berating a couple of other bloggers and naming names.  As I did not read most of the sources for these 2 blogs, I cannot speak from first hand experience as to what exactly happened, but if either or both are even partially true, and I tend to think they may be mostly true - as neither of them has a habit of stretching the truth - then the lines are moving in the sand and allegiances are shifting.  For what?

Moderateman, from what I have read and can see, has not changed much.  He is the best 'in your face' person around.  But he does not hate anyone that I can see (with the possible exception of the Hanoi twins - neither of which are members here).  And he has not changed, nor has he gotten frustrated and compromised his principals.  I can see why in real life he is seen as a very loving and caring person.  Agree with him or not, but you always know where you stand with him.  I would be proud to call him a friend in real life, and glad to be able to do so in JU at least.

Texas Wahine went through some rough times before I left and if I am (again) to believe what I have read, some more while I was away.  When I first started reading Tex, she was a self proclaimed screaming liberal.  But any one who read her stuff knew that was not really the case.  She is a young, idealistic, caring and compassionate person.  Having hit some rough spots in the road, she sank to her cyber knees, cried, got over it, and strove to make it right.  She has not really changed, but Tex, I cant see you (or probably ever will) as a screaming liberal.  A caring compassionate left of center person?  Definitely!  And a very good person (take care of that little guy's pink eye!).  I am sorry you got used as a club in the latest.

Dharmagrl, now that one is an enigma!  She is not out of her 30s (Barely passed the midpoint!), yet she comes across as the list mom, if this was a list.  I do remember the blow up between her and LW back in the day, and in retrospect, that does seem so out of character.  I guess that was just proof she is human and not perfect. She tried to be the peace maker in this whole Peyton place episode.  Personally, I think she was bailing the ocean with a sieve, but that did not seem to deter her in her efforts to cool things down when they got hot.  I was glad to see her try to jump in, even if I knew that it would not have any effect.

In all of this, many took a sideline seat.  Parated2k because he does not want to dis anyone here, and he stayed true to his word (I am talking real people, not caricatures).  DrMiler was subdued as well, I think he did not and does not like to pile on when things get hot for stupid reasons.

Inbloom, Zoomba, Foreverserenity, Trudygolightly, Philomedy, and many others seemed to stay out of it (Like I said, I have not read the whole history so I may be wrong).  For the most part these are JU's coolers.  They may or may not agree with you, but they never have a cross word for you.  Kind of why I like reading their stuff so much as it rarely if ever gets into a flame war.

Kingbee, Thatoneguyinslc, Champus Socialist, latour99 and Stevededalus seemed to stay out of it.  I think (correct me if I am wrong) because while they may have agreed with one of the original principals, they did not care for the hate that was being spewed by said person.

On the right, you had Terpfan1980, rightwinger, Bakerstreet, AKABrutus and Chaos Manager seemed to stay away for the same reason as the left side did.  They just were not going to get into a hate match with anyone even if they agreed with any of the points. 

In other words, JU had its version of the senate 14.  But no one was voting or filibustering in this war.

I am sure there are others that I have missed, but that is not my point.

I have mentioned some of the mediators, some of the victims, and some of the stay out of it crowd.  Which leaves only 2 groups.  The combatants and the pilers on.  Let's look at the combatants first.

Dave, as anyone who has been on JU for more than a month knows, has no compassion, understanding or logic.  She is from the middle ages, where you believed what you believed and anyone who disagreed with you was a witch, heretic, fool, or worse.  She cannot elaborate why she believes what she does.  Her most intelligent justification is "Because my momma told me so".  The regulars know this, and while we have fun at her expenses at times, we don't take her seriously.  No sane rationally clear thinking person ever could.  So when she baits, rarely does she get a nibble.  The fish in her pond are just too smart for her plastic worms. 

But in her hate (for that is really all she has), is her own ignorance and stupidity.  I arrived back just in time to find she is again confined.  Even a monkey can be taught.  A Dabe cannot be.  Her worst nightmare, a member of the real extreme religious right, is just like her!  The only difference is that the person on the right gets their beliefs from a book.  Dabe gets them from Dabeland.

Knowing this, and knowing that she should never be taken seriously, sometimes she is.  In this case, the object of her attack had no opportunity to respond, for Dabe has her Blacklisted (bad form Dabe!).  And in her defense, Little_Whip kept her tongue (I think - I only read the most recent of her articles, and that is one source of my information). 

Little_Whip is described by several as a very good friend, and one that while they do not agree with her, they still respect her.  I can see that.  LAW (for short) can use that whip like tongue (fingers I guess since this is a written medium - but you get my intent) to cut down her harshest opponent.  She wields a keyboard like an épée, and in that she is a master swordsman.  But she also knows how to play the crowd.  And in this case, she is playing it again.  She wants not your sympathy.  That is not her cup of tea.  She does crave your attention and friendship.  She will walk an extra mile to help you out.  And with rare exceptions (must have been the moon cycle back in January, eh?), she does not attack YOU, just your ideas.

But she is on a vendetta now, and that is evident.  A sordid one that is beneath her.  But she cannot get off that horse.  It is not in her nature to do so.  She is not the British at Concord tho, she is (are?) the minutemen.  She does not hit you full in the face, she snipes at you from the sidelines.  But, leave her alone, and do not respond, and she eventually tires of the game.  She will have the last word tho.

She is just the opposite of Dabe, in almost every way.  She does not want and indeed scorns pity and sympathy.  But she is a friendship-a-holic.  That is what she has to have and goes far afield to cultivate it.  And she does well (this is not a bad thing, just an observation).  In essence, while she can be an 'in your face' debater, she rarely attacks YOU, just your ideas, unless YOU attack HER (not her ideas) first.

So it is inevitable that while MM and Dabe have a long history, the real battle is between Dabe and LW.  Opposites, contrary to popular belief, do not attract unless you are magnets.  It does not work in people.

Then you have the last group of players in this little Peyton place.  And for those, I am very disappointed.  They are the dog pilers. DO I need to mention names here?  I have mentioned so many, I guess the omission of the names is as bad as stating them.  Yes, that is you Phoenixboi and Manopeace.  Both of you have a lot of hate in you, and neither of you strikes me as a hateful person.  But you let your hate get to you so that Mano hung his friend out to dry and teamed up with Dabe, someone he has never claimed to have anything to do with other than a stray stand now and then.  And Phoenix jumped in where he did not belong as this had nothing to do with him.  But he has a vendetta and will use any medium to further it.

As one who was not here during the nasty, and who gets along with all of the fruitcakes on here, I can say I am sadly disappointed in both of you.  While one sided with LW and the other with Dabe, you both share something in common with Dabe.  Your hate is blinding you.  And negating whatever good you are trying to do, or whatever points you are trying to make.  I know one has issued an apology and the other attacked it (why?  The apology was not for you anyway), just remember the nails in the fence.  The nails may be removed with an apology, but the holes remain.

I don't know if anyone is going to read this as it is not in the forums, and is long as shit.  But I had to get this off my chest as I don't agree with Zoomba.  While I doubt I would recognize any of you if I was to pass you on the street, at least here, we are a community.  And we do interact on a personal level.  And I would be a coward if I did not call all the parties to task for what is nothing more than a stupid, childish, immature squabble.  One that Dharma should have sent you all to your rooms for.

So go ahead and roast me.  I have had my say.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 27, 2005

I'm glad you're ok and I'm glad you had a great time off. You should do it more often just tell someone who will let others know,!

And thanks a bunch for the nice words!

Well, Chaos, Trudy got the hint from somewhere.  And I did tell one other.  But that was because he wanted to send me something and I asked him to wait.

Ok, next time I will fess up!  It was relaxing!  Yuma is nice this time of year!  No Tourist! (at 105? )

on Sep 27, 2005
we were out in the California Desert and the highs were 101-105).


you turkey.. cali and I did not know. shame on you doc, shameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
on Sep 27, 2005

I don't know if Mano has 'taken the pledge' or not. He hadn't when I last visited that thread. Doesn't matter, I did, and I'll stick to it no matter how much it hurts, lol.

Just be the duck.  The only one that can hurt you are the ones you care about.  And they wont.

on Sep 27, 2005

welcome back my friend... MM sitting in lotus position chanting. oooooommmmmmmmmmmm oooooooommmmmmmm

I did not read your rant, but I did read the rest of your stuff.  Chant away peaceman!  You earned it.

on Sep 27, 2005

you turkey.. cali and I did not know. shame on you doc, shameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Actually you did.  I told you I was going to be in LA, but you said too far.  I just did not say exactly when I was going to be in LA.

It was a great trip!  Just for you oh Peaceman, I will be back out there mid to late February.  If you get a chance, come down to Brawley for the Fund Raiser!  And Average daytime highs of 75-80 degrees!

on Sep 27, 2005
It was a great trip! Just for you oh Peaceman, I will be back out there mid to late February. If you get a chance, come down to Brawley for the Fund Raiser! And Average daytime highs of 75-80 degrees!


remind me in january would be my pleasure to meet you doc.

ah yes the typical california weather, clear sunny, no hurricanes, no tornados to speak of, but we do have some feirce fires and the daily "coffee stirrer" you folks call em earth quakes. heh.
on Sep 27, 2005

ah yes the typical california weather, clear sunny, no hurricanes, no tornados to speak of, but we do have some feirce fires and the daily "coffee stirrer" you folks call em earth quakes. heh.

Wrong oh Karnac!  I lived there, we call them the same!  Anything under a 6 is just a vibrating bed!

on Sep 27, 2005

The fact that PB and I have become so close only adds fuel to the situation between Mano and I, and, enoying the bond that we do, PB feels somewhat protective where I am concerned. What you saw as dogpiling, I saw as kinda sweet.

I am not totally aware of his and your relationship.  However, this was not and is not his dog fight.  He may have a beef with Mano, but then that should be between him and Mano.  While I am sure you are honored to play Dulcinea, I doubt your Don Quixote can do anything you cannot.  I like PB, but he has decided to make this a Jihad, and that I dont like.  Let him settle his own differences.  Dog Piling on anothers for his gain accomplishes nothing but to weaken his own cause. 

And in truth, that is all his post seemed to be.  Just a dog pile, for no good reason.  No one attacked him.  Why should he reject an appology that was not his to do so?

on Sep 28, 2005
This reminds me of the old days, before the Internet, when BBS ruled the lines.

This odd mixture of childish behaviour and mature friendship was typical for the days of old (12 years ago) and typical for the geeks in high school.

And speaking of childish behaviour: why wasn't I mentioned in the summary?
on Sep 28, 2005
Firstly Dr G .. I want to say that I respect you for you and for what you believe in.

Herein I ask you to respect me for the same.

By saying that I am going to say that for me one of the most important things is honesty, I will always stand for what the truth is and as stated a long while ago in my blog I will not tolerate crap, especially from people who should know better.

I consider LW as one of my best friends... now I know some people might find that weird because we have never physically met but I share with LW daily my thoughts and my fears and everything that is happening with me in my life, whether I reveal them on a blog or not LW has become a person whom I consider one of my best friends.. and that is not something I say lightly.

Therefore even though I know that LW doesnt need me to fight her battles..we all know she is quite capable of doing that for herself.. if someone is attacking her, consider them attacking me.

Now saying that...I have asked Mano to come to the table with me on a number of occasions, and he has refused, not only refused but intentionally ignored me, where I have done nothing wrong to him personally or otherwise. So due to his lack of wanting to make peace, I see what he does as hypocracy..TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE. There is nothing I can stand more than a liar and a hypocrite. ESPECIALLY when they disguise it behind the mask of peace. So his generic apology .. well I see it as crap, something not of the heart but of the mouth, a forked tongue, therefore I have a right to reply seeing that I am blacklisted from his blog, where he is not from mine.

Now you know DR G.. I am living constantly day in and day out with the thought of death. What really bothers me is that people on this planet take for granted the very breath that they breathe. While some fight every day with pain and torture just by walking around in their bodies there are others who please themselves in the hurt of others, and I find this abhorent in this time and age.

Like I have stated in another thread.. the annihilation of the human race sometimes doesnt seem such a bad thing for this planet, because after all this time we cannot live any longer the way we have been living.

Now whether this makes sense to people or not..well so be it.. but Dr G.. it is not hatred that I have inside me.. it is quite the opposite and everyday I deal with the agony that I feel around me. Now if you have noticed I dont blog on JU regularly anymore. Ive moved over to blogger and am really enjoying the creativity that I am able to express there, as well as having another group of people to respond and check out what is happening in my world - without restriction of word or pictures - no moderation. Im enjoying my freedom. Although I still pop in to see whats happening on JU because I enjoy the friendships I have made on here and want to see whats happening in their worlds too.

So I hope you can understand where I am coming from Dr G.. im sorry if your dissapointed but there is alot of history behind how im feeling and what has happened.
on Sep 28, 2005

And speaking of childish behaviour: why wasn't I mentioned in the summary?

I missed many I guess.  I did not see you doing a dog pile.  You usually stay out of the snipe wars, so I forgot you.  Mea Culpa on that one!

on Sep 28, 2005

You're correct in assuming that I am not in 'need' of his defense, (or anyone else's, for that matter) but as I said before, his history with Mano is of a personal and intimate nature--heh--and not anywhere I think you'd want to go!

I have a passing familiarity with their war, and that is something they have to work out.  I have not gotten involved with that, nor will I.  I plain dont know enough to even think to know I know.  And while your may be correct on a techniciality, the intent of the appology seemed to be the brouhaha that was started with the Dabe Article, and he was not involved.  Hence my disappointment in his dog piling.

on Sep 28, 2005

So I hope you can understand where I am coming from Dr G.. im sorry if your dissapointed but there is alot of history behind how im feeling and what has happened.

I am aware of the bad blood between you and Manopeace.  I am not familiar with the details and reasons behind it, as that is not my business.  I respect both of you, but in this case, you were fighting him by proxy.  Hatred may be too strong a word, but at the least it was a lot of anger.  It was a bad situation, and the best thing to have done would have been to stay out of it as most did.

I dont think you are bad, I just feel (note not know) that you used poor judgement in this spat.  And that is what I called you on.  I did not put this into the forums as I stated earlier, I intended to name names, and not dance around with diplomatic language. I have read you before and found your articles to be funny, insightful and witty.  And at times aggravating as we dont agree on many things (but then I dont agree with a lot of people on many things, but, like you, I still respect them).  If I did not like or respect you as an individual, I would not have named you in this article.

One does not expend energy on issues that they do not care about. Or people.

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