Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
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Published on July 22, 2005 By Dr Guy In Current Events

Moderateman has started a thread for lawyer jokes, and I have contributed my share.  As have others.  Lawyers are not a very respected profession, altho they are very well paid.  They scream they are just doing their job, and I guess their job is not the truth or justice, but to maximize the benefit to their client, whether it is right or not.

In that many do a very good job.  But doing a very good job as they define it, is disgusting to what most people would call a civil and just method.  And today we have a case in Point.

Alejandro Avila was just convicted of kidnapping assaulting, raping and brutally murdering 5 year old Samantha Runnion.  The DNA evidence was over whelming, and there was an eye witness to the abduction.  This story, while the details vary some, is all too familiar of late.

So what makes this one so special?  Nothing really.  But it is what his attorney's argued.  Here is part one:

The defense challenged the reliability of the DNA analysis and suggested that the material found inside Avila's car had been planted.

Ok, I could beleive that in some stretch of the imagination.  Planted evidence has been known, but there was just too much evidence.  Still, if the lawyer beleived him I can see where he would argue that.  But then, after the conviction, he argued the following:

After the conviction, defense attorneys urged jurors to spare Avila's life, arguing that the abduction was an impulsive act prompted by a brutal childhood in which he was beaten by his father, raped by an uncle and neglected by his mother.

See the double standard?  The Lawyer KNEW he was guilty as sin, and tried to argue a lie for acquital, and then tried to argue 'abuse' for sympathy!  He may have been doing his job, but how he did it was totally slimy and immoral.  I wont say unethical, but it clearly would be for most people.

As long as lawyers lie and argue both sides of the facts like this, whether it is in the best interest of their clients or nor, they are not going to get the respect of the general population.  If he believed in his clients innocence in the first case, why did he then try to excuse the behaviour in the second?

The answer is because it was his job.  It may be his job, but it is not mine, nor could I stomach doing it day after day.  Nor would I.  One has to look at yourself in the mirror every day, and the man that looks back could not be that slimy in my eyes.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 24, 2005
Lawyers "demand" respect! But alot of them do NOT deserve it.


it seems to be a serious sort of day for you Dr...
on Jul 24, 2005
Lawyers "demand" respect! But alot of them do NOT deserve it.


it seems to be a serious sort of day for you Dr...


It's always a serious day for me when I'm here. That is unless I'm in the humor section.
on Jul 27, 2005

How does such a law qualify as bad?

Surely the civil servants who work with the secretaries and MPs have a legal background?

IN state legislatures (well Virginias), the staffs of these people are small, and legal background is not a qualification.  So some do and some dont (my son was offered an internship this summer with the Hose of Delegates Minority leader - he is in College but has not declared a major yet).

I am not sure how Maryland decries the fact a law is bad.  Perhaps they know that a court will strike it down as being too vague (a popular decision of courts in this land).

on Jul 27, 2005

When I see a confessed child killer being painted as a victim, it makes me despise the profession in general. Sure, if the man claims innocence, a lawyer should try with all his power to see that he isn't convicted. Once a person's participation is certain, though, they have no business fighting the system of punishment we as voters desire for particular acts.

Even a guilty verdict is not evidence of certaintude.  If you argued that your client was framed, then dont turn around during sentencing and say he was a victim!  That is what sickens me.  If he proclaimed innocence, and he maintains it, then argue that while the jury does believe beyond a reasonable doubt, they probably have a 'little' doubt so give him the opportunity to prove innocence later by giving him a life sentence.  I would be much more receptive to that plea than a victim one.

on Jul 27, 2005

agree with you in principle. But this is not how it could possibly work. Your method would require the lawyer to hold loyalty to higher principles and not solely his client. That's not what a lawyer is for. A lawyer MUST be 100% loyal to his client and use whatever means he legally can to act in the best interest of his client, the person he must be 100% loyal to.

If we accept your premise, then how would you react to hear the evidence, convict him, and then hear that lame plea of the lawyer during sentencing.  LIke I said before, if I heard it that way, he would get the chair.

on Jul 27, 2005

No, the lawyer needs to first be 100% loyal to the law. If

I like that statement.  Oh if it were true.

on Jul 27, 2005

The main point is that in the Common Law system the defence lawyer is essentially the servant of the accused and not of the court, the legal system or society in general. This is because this system is historically based on the idea that it is better that 'ten guilty persons go free, than one innocent person be falsely imprisoned'.

But he is also an officer of the court, and must first and foremost submit to its rules.  Therefore, a lawyer cannot subourn perjury as that would get him disbarred, even if it would help his client out.  While it is his job to defend his client, he cannot lie, cheat or steal to do so.  IN the case cited, the lawyer was doing exactly that in one phase or the the other.

on Jul 27, 2005

No. That is exactly wrong. At least for defence attorneys.

Actually it is correct.  If the lawyer knows his client is going to lie on the stand, he is duty bound to keep him off it.  As I said above, a lawyer suborning perjury is guilty of a crime, regardless if that is in the best interest of his client.

on Jul 27, 2005

A lawyer's first allegience is to the sanctity of law. Granted, most waste lawyers feel as you do that the law is something to be bent and twisted to fit their clients. In reality, they are there to see that justice is served for their client.

That is the way it should be, but unfortunately, all too often it is not.

on Jul 27, 2005

One note of caution however. Common Law and Civil Law are abstractions. Some legal systems lean more to one side than the other and some are mixed (Scotland, Canada). Over the years there has been a lot of mutual influence.

How does Napoleonic law fit into these 2 camps?  It is quite different from Common law, and from the countries you cite for Civil law.

on Jul 27, 2005

Reply By: Manopeace

I got that one as well.  I was surprised they were calling from England.

on Jul 27, 2005

Lawyers "demand" respect! But alot of them do NOT deserve it.

EXACTLY my point.

on Jul 27, 2005

it seems to be a serious sort of day for you Dr...

Even if one was humorous, given the 2 current cases in Idaho and Florida, you are not going to find many people that are not sickened by both the actions of these animals, and the actions of their lawyers.

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