Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
An explanation for some
Published on April 5, 2005 By Dr Guy In Current Events

Several people, on the death of Pope John Paul II, have expressed their respect for the man and his duties, but........

In almost all cases, they were very respectful, but they just had a very strong disagreement with the Pope on the subject of Birth Control.

As do I.

However, I have been a Catholic all my life, went through a crises of faith and had to find it again. In the process I learned alot about my birth faith so that I could be a good Catholic even when disagreeing with some of the teachings of the church. 

One of them is about Birth control.  But before I could stand up and say I disagree with my Church on that subject, I had to understand where they were coming from in their opposition to it.

Pope John Paul II opposed all forms of Birth control.  Not out of spite or wanting to manipulate people, but out of his one over riding principal that dictated all his other actions as well.  His supreme belief in the dignity and worth of every Human Life.  From that Belief, all his teachings and beliefs sprang.

I doubt that anyone would call Pope JPII a manipulative man, and yet he was in his own way, as we all are.  He opposed Birth control due to the fact that he beleived the act of sex was meant for the procreation of the human race.  And any attempt to stop that from happening was a cheapening of the dignity of the individual.

We can argue all day on how he could speak on a subject he had little or no experience with, but that would not add to the reason he opposed condoms.

I uderstand his reason, but I dont agree with it.  Yes, I find it extreme, but I also respect him for not compromising.  For if her were to compromise, that would have destroyed his moral authority to speak on the subject and made him a hypocrite. Much like most people are, myself included.

There is a nasty little secret that I believe everyone practices at one time or another.  It is called situational ethics.  We beleive in ABC, except in this one (or 2 or 3) cases.  That is situational ethics and it is a betrayal to our core beliefs and to ourselves.

Pope John Paul II never succumbed to the slippery slope of situational ethics.  And so that made some of his views extreme in a world that lives by them daily.

Sure, Condoms can help slow the spread of AIDS, but the only 100% effective way to stop it is through abstinance. Period.  No one argues with that.  So Pope John Paul II knew this as well, but since his first and foremost belief was in abstinance, why promote a less effective method that would only make his beleifs just a case of situational Ethics?

So when you think of the Pope, and disagree with his teachings on some subjects, dont vilify him.  Ultimately, his way was far safer than any other way.  His belief in the Dignity of every man (woman) meant that he believed that all could abstain. He was unwilling to trade one belief for a convenience that he knew we could avoid.

That is part of what made him great. Disagree with him, but dont vilify or hate him for what made him great.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 06, 2005
you did bring up something that I hadn't thought of before...about women in other countries who don't have the option of saying "no" that most people in the US and other western nations do.


reread my earlier comment and you'll see i purposely focused on 'culture' rather than 'country'. there are women in america and other western nations who are in the same awful situation as those in the third world.

as far as kids go, terpfan posted an article that quoted a study that claims kids are engaging in a lotta oral sex (the version i saw elsewhere mentioned anal sex as well) because they dont consider it sex. one of the researcher suggests this is due, in part, to teens being so focused on maintaining vaginal virginity and woeful ignorance.

abstinence, like all ideals, doesnt play well in the real world.
on Apr 06, 2005
Well, KB...maybe it should. We let our kids just make their own decisions when they're not capable of making a decision like "should I have sex...all my friends are doing it?" We don't give a rip where they are at night or after school. We don't care about their emotional and physical well being enough to provide absinence as an option for being healthy and being safe.

Abstinence doesn't "play well" because people that give kids information about sex just assume that they're going to go out and do it anyway and don't give it much lip service. People who are giving information about sex also need to include the emotional and physical ramifications of anal and oral sex, as you mentioned...and how abstinence from those activities can have physical and emotional benefits as well.

Ideals...hmmmm...well...the "real world" is what we make it...what we feed into it, what we tell our kids by showing it on tv, singing about it in music, and mostly, living it in our own lives. I'm glad that I'm going to wait for all that sexual activity till I'm married, and I'm going to be able to honestly tell my children and grandchildren that I did so, and WHY I did so. And...I know this goes against all your ideals, KB, but I'm also going to expect that from them... I'm not going to rely on the American educational system to tell my children all about birth control and what sex is really like (one of my teachers in high school advocated using condoms for ice cubes because they keep your whole drink cold.) They're going to hear about it from me. Liberal-minded people like yourself expect schools to pick up the parents' slack and teach kids all about sex and birth control and STD's, and that's bunk.

on Apr 06, 2005
MH--you seem to have a lot of animosity regarding this topic--which I am guessing comes from your belief that people are judging you because of the decisions you made. I say, "good on you!" If you don't feel that you are ready (spiritually, emotionally, physically) to have sex, then abstaining is a great decision.

But, please, just because I did not decide as you did, does not make me less of a person, or less responsible than you are. Comments like:

But, lots of these diseases could be prevented if people, without taking 30 people for "test drives," thought about the person they might want to spend quite a bit of their life with, and just wait.


are just insulting to those of us who did not make your choice. We are not dirty tramps simply because we didn't "wait." For starters, thirty is probably an exaggeration for most people, but the general idea (that you are dirty if you have had more than one partner) is very judgemental. I'm a firm believer of personal choice and personal freedom and equiping each citizen with enough information and education to make the right decisions for them.

and how abstinence from those activities can have physical and emotional benefits as well.


I don't know about your education, but ours covered abstinence quite well--I could recite the mantra of "Abstinence is the only 100% effective method of birth control" just like the other students in my high school. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in a lot of places abstinence is the ONLY education.

I'm glad that I'm going to wait for all that sexual activity till I'm married, and I'm going to be able to honestly tell my children and grandchildren that I did so, and WHY I did so


What if you have no intention of getting married--should you abstain forever? At this point in my life, I have no desire to tie myself down in some antiquated system of servitude in order to gain tax benefits. I don't need a ring on my finger to feel loved, nor do I need some city or church official to sanction my love. Does that mean that I should be the "forever-virgin"?

I'm not going to rely on the American educational system to tell my children all about birth control and what sex is really like (one of my teachers in high school advocated using condoms for ice cubes because they keep your whole drink cold.) They're going to hear about it from me. Liberal-minded people like yourself expect schools to pick up the parents' slack and teach kids all about sex and birth control and STD's, and that's bunk.


Good, you are right. Parents should be taking to their kids. I'm not sure what your dig at liberals is about, though. Liberals seek public education on sex because some parents aren't doing their jobs. It's like the school breakfast program. Some parents were feeding their kids, so we started feeding them at school in the morning. If we were to treat the lack of food the same way as we treat the lack of sexual education, those kids would continue to go hungry. As a society, we have a responsibility to the next generation to pick up the slack where others are failing them. If their parents aren't getting the job done, the schools need to step in.

And no one expects me to. In fact, whenever I go to the doctor, I get looked at funny because I'm still a virgin (


I think it is time for you to find a new doctor. I was probably your age or older when I had first had sex, and my doctor never looked at me funny, in fact, he was quite impressed. So, if you truly feel that your doctor is being a jerk--switch doctors.

Back to the article:

Dr. Guy--I am torn on this. For starters I believe that sex education and access to birth control is necessary. However, I don't believe that the catholic church is responsible for teaching it. That said, they should not activity try to stop it either--it would be more of a sin of omission for the church.

Ideally, though the church will recognize that, in fact, God's will is not to spread disease and sorrow throughout the globe in the form of STDs and AIDS, and will start to work to reduce the occurence of both. Idealistic--yes, but when am I not.
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