Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Criticism from an unlikely source
Published on March 7, 2005 By Dr Guy In Politics

Moveon.org was born of the Clinton Impeachment, and stayed around to try and influence the 2000 and 2004 elections.  To many republicans, Moveon.org was a boogeyman.  ONe to be feared and countered.  With Soros' millions, how could we let this outfit run rampant on our electoral system they fretted.

But an article in the Rolling stone shows just how bad a boogeyman Moveon,org was and is.

They signed up 500,000 supporters with an Internet petition -- but Bill Clinton still got impeached. They organized 6,000 candlelight vigils worldwide -- but the U.S. still invaded Iraq. They raised $60 million from 500,000 donors to air countless ads and get out the vote in the battle-ground states -- but George Bush still whupped John Kerry. A gambler with a string of bets this bad might call it a night. But MoveOn.org just keeps doubling down.

While I must confess that the thought of those unchecked millions that were being pumped into Moveon.org initially frightened me, I then saw this little outfit of average joes, bring up their own website and ad campaign.  The Swift Vets. While it can be argued that SwiftVets did not cost Kerry the Election, it cannot be argued that their agenda was not better served by the results than was those of Moveon.org.  The little david may not have slayed the mighty Goliath, those rocks it threw sure did not hurt.

With all this, one has to wonder when the clowns of Moveo.org will just fold up their tent and go home.  But wait!  There is a silver lining!  For you see, the democrats love losers!  The Bigger the loser, the bigger the hero to them!

So Moveon.org will stay around as they are the perfect example of a liberal cause that does what it is designed to do.  Lose!  They do that very well.


Comments
on Mar 07, 2005
But they do have one victory to their name: Howard Dean

The man may not have received the nomination for President, but he did get most of his recognition and assistance from MoveOn.

While many laughed at the statement made late last year of "We bought this party, it is ours now."
They did manage to get their man in the chair of the DNC. Now we look back and say they maybe right.

That's My Two Cents
on Mar 07, 2005

The man may not have received the nomination for President, but he did get most of his recognition and assistance from MoveOn.

I will give you 1/2 point for that.  They were preaching to their choir after all.

on Mar 07, 2005
Reply By: Lee1776Posted: Monday, March 07, 2005But they do have one victory to their name: Howard Dean


ah yes the answere to all republicans dream ... howie the melt down as dnc chair... yayyyyyyyyyyyyyy u go howie!!!
on Mar 08, 2005
I must confess to a bit of gloating glee as I watched these guys and their supporters stammer about how their support wasn't the reason that their champions lost.
on Mar 08, 2005

I must confess to a bit of gloating glee as I watched these guys and their supporters stammer about how their support wasn't the reason that their champions lost.

Sounds like the perfect defense "But your HOnor, just because I shot him 6 times does not mean I killed him!"

on Mar 08, 2005
"Sounds like the perfect defense "But your HOnor, just because I shot him 6 times does not mean I killed him!"


But that can actually be true. If someone is shot six times superficially, and then dies of lung cancer on the way to the hospital, you really didn't kill him.

I think a better analogy of moveon.org in the last election was they pumped round after round into Bush, but Kerry opted to shoot himself anyway. There is a good deal of "preaching to the choir", but I think a lot of the people who adopted their stance didn't realize they were being wooed by a campaign, and not just a collection of unaffiliated activists.

That's the problem with activities like moveon. They exchanged employees with the Kerry campaign, both had the same donors, and yet somehow they got away with pretending they were independant. I think if they had had a reasonably palatable candidate they would have done a lot more damage.

Even with a candidate so out of touch with the average American, look how close the election was. I don't think they will pack up their tent, given how little it would have taken to shift the election in the other direction.

on Mar 08, 2005
Even with a candidate so out of touch with the average American, look how close the election was. I don't think they will pack up their tent, given how little it would have taken to shift the election in the other direction.


We both look at the elephant and see different things. I see the legs as trees and you see the trunk as a hose.

In my case, I think it was close not because of moveon.org, but in spite of them. Bush was a very weak president (popularity wise). Yes, Kerry did shoot himself, but Moveon did nothing to help him get over his own limitations.
on Mar 08, 2005
I think the difference in our perspective comes from the voters themselves. I'll grant you that moveon probably didn't change one vote from Bush to Kerry. I think they did, however, motivate 20-somethings that wouldn't normally vote to do so.

Again, look at how close the last two elections were. It wouldn't have taken a mass exodus by Bush voters to defeat him. Look at who the Repbulicans have to choose from in 2008.

When we see elections with a difference of a couple of million votes, the influence a site like moveon.org is vastly more important. If Bush had won by 20 million votes, sure, the votes moveon.org sent kerry's way wouldn't have been significant. With the nation divided the way it is, no possibility is insignificant.
on Mar 08, 2005
"Sounds like the perfect defense "But your HOnor, just because I shot him 6 times does not mean I killed him!"



But that can actually be true. If someone is shot six times superficially, and then dies of lung cancer on the way to the hospital, you really didn't kill him.


If you shoot someone 6 times and they ain't dead, you need glasses or at the very least more target practice.
on Mar 08, 2005
It is an interesting point and a sad one. I think the moment for MoveOn is perhaps not right. But I think the intention of getting a grassroots movement up is admirable.
on Mar 08, 2005
The problem with Moveon is their actions often became ammunition for the opposition. They need to do a better job of putting out the information.
on Mar 09, 2005
Going by your guidlines of losers should go home, do you think the entire democratic party should just quit now?
on Mar 09, 2005
Going by your guidlines of losers should go home, do you think the entire democratic party should just quit now?


In a word?......YES!
on Mar 10, 2005
In a word?......YES!


too bad its not the case. The Republicans would have quit a long time ago.
on Mar 10, 2005
It is an interesting point and a sad one. I think the moment for MoveOn is perhaps not right. But I think the intention of getting a grassroots movement up is admirable.


Agreed. I disagreed with almost everything MoveOn.org had to say, but isn't it great that people stood up to have their say in the first place!

The problem with Moveon is their actions often became ammunition for the opposition. They need to do a better job of putting out the information.


Don't you just hate it when your own weapons blow up in your face!! ;~D