Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
This is Then
Published on February 9, 2005 By Dr Guy In Current Events

I came across this article, written by an Israeli Arab, in my perusing of some sites.  It is very helpful in understanding where the refugee camps of today came from, and why.

I found the authors plea to be heartfelt, and his contempt for his fellow arabs to be almost palpable. 

In a nut shell, the palestinians were lied to and were and are bring used by the other Arab nations in the Middle East.  When Israel was formed, the Jews Asked all to stay.  But the Arab world instilled fear and loathing into the Arab people of Israel and told them to flea.  To a better life?

No.  For almost 20 years, the Arab countries did nothing for the Palestinians, except use them as a whipping boy to whip up anger and hatred against the Jews. While there is no question that there have been many deaths on both the Israel and Palestinian side, the ugly truth is that none of it had to happen. The whole sordid mess could have been avoided if, instead of trying to isolate the Jews in israel, the Arabs had worked with them to establish a second country called Palestine.

What is even more grotesque is that some of the militants now are using children as human bombs.  Children who will never have a chance for a life due to an old hatred that probably none have any clue of where it came from.

It is a sad testament to what happens when a people start eating their own for the simple reason of getting at a perceived enemy.  I think it is time that these countries who basically enslaved and sacraficed Palestinians for their own agenda, come forward and start making amends with the people they so wronged.

Even if this new peace initiate between Sharon and Abbas thrives, any new nation is going to need some help establishing an infrastructure in order to create a viable country.  If The other Arab nations are serious about helping the Palestinians, now is the time to show it.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 10, 2005
first off.... Israel was the jews first


I'm not going to get into the argument of who was where first because everyone has a different take. The simple matter is that they are both there now. We need to solve the problem in the present, not in the past.

ummmmm does holocaust ring a bell?


It would be a shameful day if the Israelis decided to use the Halocaust as a bargaining tool to be disingenuine neogtiators with the Palestinians. If true peace and stability are desired, compromise must be just that--compromise. Not one side giving up all their desires to appease the other side.

and I nor anyone else suggested that the palistinian people should have to move anywhere


Then I obviously misunderstood what you meant when you suggested that:

all the other arab countries ever had to do to stop this debacle is cut a tiny portion of the countries that border Isreal and gift it to the"poor downtroden Palistinians" give them the means to live


To me, that means you think the surrounding Arab nations should chisel off a little bit and give it to the Palestinians. If that is not what you intended, I apologize for my confusion.

the are real muslims , christians and jews living side by side in Israel. peacefully and prosperous too.


There are. However, the Palestinians aren't hoping to live in a Jewish state. They want to live in a Palestinian state and the UN Convention on Human Rights grants them the right to national identity and self-determination.

That is not to say that they can't be peaceful neighbors. It just means that they should have the right to an independent nation.
on Feb 10, 2005
Reply By: shadesofgreyPosted: Thursday, February 10, 2005


I'm not going to get into the argument of who was where first because everyone has a different take. The simple matter is that they are both there now. We need to solve the problem in the present, not in the past.


ok we will not fo there then.
It would be a shameful day if the Israelis decided to use the Halocaust as a bargaining tool to be disingenuine neogtiators with the Palestinians. If true peace and stability are desired, compromise must be just that--compromise. Not one side giving up all their desires to appease the other side.


I agree for the most part, but the jewish state was created {by the british i might add} to have a place for the jews to prosper and feel safe.
To me, that means you think the surrounding Arab nations should chisel off a little bit and give it to the Palestinians. If that is not what you intended, I apologize for my confusion.


your right that is exactly what I mean, what.s the big deal about that, if the arabs want peace so badly and want the palistinians to have their own homeland and state, why not?
There are. However, the Palestinians aren't hoping to live in a Jewish state. They want to live in a Palestinian state and the UN Convention on Human Rights grants them the right to national identity and self-determination.


Again I agree they should have their own state, but not push the jews out as they have seemed to want to.
on Feb 11, 2005
"However, it is naive to believe that Palestinians will accept a little bit of other countries as an end to the conflict. Palestinians are seeking a return to "their" land--not just any land, but specifically the land that they fled in 1948 and 1967. Slicing off a bit of Syria or Jordan does not address the problem when they are seeking bits of Haifa and Jaffo. The Palestinians need to compromise--they can't expect to get it all back (or even a lot of it), but there is no hope for genuine stability and peace in the region if only the Palestinians are compromising. Why should Israelis get all and Palestinians get nought?"

The Jewish refugees from Arab countries, expelled by the Arabs and absorbed by Israel, received no help from the UN, and no recognition as "refugees". They now live in the territory that after the break-up of the Osmanic empire was allocated to the Jews.

They have received no compensation for their lost property and they certainly do not have a "right to return". In fact many Arab countries do not even allow Jews to cross the border.

The Israelis already got nothing while the Palestinians have recognition as refugees and UN help and are (apparently) allowed to attack Israel whenever they feel like it. There is no way the Israelis could get "all" and the Palestinians "nought". Not any more.

All we can hope for is for the Arabs to absorb the Palestinians just as Israel has absorbed Arab Jews. That's the solution that has worked for Israel when the Arabs forced it, and that is the solution that could work for the Arabs as well.

But for some reason what can be done to Jews (expell and settle elsewhere) is out of the question for Arabs. Recognition as refugees is another thing that appears to be a

privilege on non-Jews in the conflict. Arabs can be legal refugees even if they have never lived in the territory they are refugees from, the Arab Jews were not legal refugees when they had to flee their Arab homelands. And since they now live in Israel, they wouldn't need the status anyway. And neither would the Palestinians, had the Arabs behaved towards them like the Jews behaved towards on another.

Had the Jews stayd in the Arab countries, their destiny would likely have been the same as that of other non-Arab minorities in the Arab world, like the Kurds in Iraq, the Berbers in Algeria, and the Christians in Sudan.

When Poland occupied a part of Germany, they expelled the Germans living there. I was born in Germany, but I have no problem with that. Germany attacked and lost. Poland won. The same happened to "Transjordan", the difference being that Israel did not expell the Arabs living in the occupied land, instead they gave them autonomy, or try to.

So what exactly makes you think that Israel got all and the Palestinians got nought? I think the Palestinians already got more than any other people that ever lived in an occupied territory lost in a war that wasn't started by the victorious side.

on Feb 11, 2005
A really good site offering two perspectives (Israeli and Palestinian) on the conflict is at http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2001/promises/timeline2.html

An event that is often overlooked is the conflict that took place within Jordan in 1970 between Palestinians and Jordanians. "Frustrated with and feeling threatened by the Palestine Liberation Organization’s involvement in Jordanian politics, King Hussein declares war on the PLO and imposes martial law. Three thousand people lost their lives in the fighting that ensued between the Jordanian and the PLO forces."

Palestinians are never going to be absorbed into other Arab countries, at least not willingly and not without a loss of identity.
on Feb 11, 2005

There are. However, the Palestinians aren't hoping to live in a Jewish state. They want to live in a Palestinian state and the UN Convention on Human Rights grants them the right to national identity and self-determination.

True, but in the 50+ years the situation has existed, they have not tried to create one.  For the first 20, it may have been due to their arab brothers keeping them down, but since then, Israel has tried to negotite and set up a Aplestinian state.  However, just as you or I would not allow a serial killer to set up house next to ours, neither are the Israelis going to give them cart blanche as long as they maintian that the only good Jew is a dead jew.  There is hope now, but there was none due to Arafat and his insistence on all or nothing in the past.

on Feb 11, 2005
The PLO with Syrian help did try to take over Jordan just as they tried to take over Israel.

Arafat was a dictator with no country. And everybody tried to help him get one.
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