Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
This is Then
Published on February 9, 2005 By Dr Guy In Current Events

I came across this article, written by an Israeli Arab, in my perusing of some sites.  It is very helpful in understanding where the refugee camps of today came from, and why.

I found the authors plea to be heartfelt, and his contempt for his fellow arabs to be almost palpable. 

In a nut shell, the palestinians were lied to and were and are bring used by the other Arab nations in the Middle East.  When Israel was formed, the Jews Asked all to stay.  But the Arab world instilled fear and loathing into the Arab people of Israel and told them to flea.  To a better life?

No.  For almost 20 years, the Arab countries did nothing for the Palestinians, except use them as a whipping boy to whip up anger and hatred against the Jews. While there is no question that there have been many deaths on both the Israel and Palestinian side, the ugly truth is that none of it had to happen. The whole sordid mess could have been avoided if, instead of trying to isolate the Jews in israel, the Arabs had worked with them to establish a second country called Palestine.

What is even more grotesque is that some of the militants now are using children as human bombs.  Children who will never have a chance for a life due to an old hatred that probably none have any clue of where it came from.

It is a sad testament to what happens when a people start eating their own for the simple reason of getting at a perceived enemy.  I think it is time that these countries who basically enslaved and sacraficed Palestinians for their own agenda, come forward and start making amends with the people they so wronged.

Even if this new peace initiate between Sharon and Abbas thrives, any new nation is going to need some help establishing an infrastructure in order to create a viable country.  If The other Arab nations are serious about helping the Palestinians, now is the time to show it.


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Feb 09, 2005
When Israel was formed, the Jews Asked all to stay. But the Arab world instilled fear and loathing into the Arab people of Israel and told them to flea.

Not true at all.....

No. For almost 20 years, the Arab countries did nothing for the Palestinians, except use them as a whipping boy to whip up anger and hatred against the Jews.

More like 52 years.....

If The other Arab nations are serious about helping the Palestinians, now is the time to show it.

This is a responsibility for all of humanity, not just for Arab States.



on Feb 09, 2005
Dr. Guy:

In looking at the formation of the Israeli state it is important to look in to the massacres a Deir Yassin--this wasn't simply some imagined collective memory of the Palestinian peoples.

The Palestinians called it Nakba (the catastrophe) for a reason. Israeli historian Benny Morris has done extensive research on the explusion and he cites massacres and rape.

In an recent interview Morris made the following two statements:

"There is no justification for acts of rape. There is no justification for acts of massacre. Those are war crimes. But in certain conditions, expulsion is not a war crime. I don't think that the expulsions of 1948 were war crimes. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. You have to dirty your hands."


"There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing. I know that this term is completely negative in the discourse of the 21st century, but when the choice is between ethnic cleansing and genocide - the annihilation of your people - I prefer ethnic cleansing."
on Feb 09, 2005

No. For almost 20 years, the Arab countries did nothing for the Palestinians, except use them as a whipping boy to whip up anger and hatred against the Jews.

More like 52 years.....

I meant the time that the Arabs controlled the 'occupied areas'.  I know they still try, but now Israel is looked at as the occupier.

When Israel was formed, the Jews Asked all to stay. But the Arab world instilled fear and loathing into the Arab people of Israel and told them to flea.

Not true at all.....

Those are his words, and since I had not been born, I can only take his word at that.  He is a native after all.

If The other Arab nations are serious about helping the Palestinians, now is the time to show it.

This is a responsibility for all of humanity, not just for Arab States.

True, but I think much of the western world has been trying to get a resolution for many years.  Arabs have not lifted a finger.  In the end, it will probably be Israel and the US that helps nurture nationhood for them.  The rest will be angry for losing their suicide bombers.

Missed you Manopeace!  Glad you are back and posting!

on Feb 09, 2005

In looking at the formation of the Israeli state it is important to look in to the massacres a Deir Yassin--this wasn't simply some imagined collective memory of the Palestinian peoples.

The Palestinians called it Nakba (the catastrophe) for a reason. Israeli historian Benny Morris has done extensive research on the explusion and he cites massacres and rape.

All true Shades.  Yet This was not trying to atone for or excuse excesses of the past.  Instead it was, and indeed it hit me as, a condemnation of the Arab world for neglecting and using their Palestian brothers.

I have never read Morris, but I think he just slipped on the slippery slope.  As the cliche goes, in for a penny, in for a pound.  He has lots of pennies in without uttering another word.

on Feb 09, 2005
Glad you are back and posting!


I'm not back yet...my puters going to the hospital tomorrow (Thursday) for a Windows transplant... I won't get it back till Sunday morning:'(..... Miss you guys too.
on Feb 09, 2005

I'm not back yet...my puters going to the hospital tomorrow (Thursday) for a Windows transplant... I won't get it back till Sunday morning:'(..... Miss you guys too.

We'll keep a light on for you!  Come back soon.

on Feb 09, 2005
have never read Morris, but I think he just slipped on the slippery slope. As the cliche goes, in for a penny, in for a pound. He has lots of pennies in without uttering another word.


You should definitely check out Morris--he's a interesting scholar with an unique perspective. I'm not saying that I completely agree with him--but he's draw some difficult conclusions when no one else would.

Those are his words, and since I had not been born, I can only take his word at that. He is a native after all.


I wouldn't take one person's word--I'd read a lot and then decide what series of events you think sounds most plausible. You are right--some of us are too young to have experienced it--but that doesn't mean we have to believe the first account of it that we hear.
on Feb 10, 2005
all the other arab countries ever had to do to stop this debacle is cut a tiny portion of the countries that border Isreal and gift it to the"poor downtroden Palistinians" give them the means to live, help them along the way after all the palistinians are YOUR MUSLIM BROTHERS"
on Feb 10, 2005
Reply By: ManopeacePosted: Wednesday, February 09, 2005Glad you are back and posting! I'm not back yet...my puters going to the hospital tomorrow (Thursday) for a Windows transplant... I won't get it back till Sunday morning:'(..... Miss you guys too.


miss ya my left leaning brother.... smiles for ya
on Feb 10, 2005
all the other arab countries ever had to do to stop this debacle is cut a tiny portion of the countries that border Isreal and gift it to the"poor downtroden Palistinians" give them the means to live, help them along the way after all the palistinians are YOUR MUSLIM BROTHERS"


If only it were that simple, Moderateman.
on Feb 10, 2005

I wouldn't take one person's word--I'd read a lot and then decide what series of events you think sounds most plausible. You are right--some of us are too young to have experienced it--but that doesn't mean we have to believe the first account of it that we hear.

Agreed.  But then before I delve into hyperbole, I will listen to an eye witness.  Besides, he is not condemning the palestians in any way except gullability.  And in that he is proved partially right.

on Feb 10, 2005

If only it were that simple, Moderateman

So true Shades of Silver, so true!  But it does provide another perspective to your own experiiences.  It is not an excuse, it is a cause.

on Feb 10, 2005
Reply By: shadesofgreyPosted: Thursday, February 10, 2005


If only it were that simple, Moderateman


It really is that simple if they wanted to help... after all america spends zillions to help strangers.
on Feb 10, 2005
Agreed. But then before I delve into hyperbole, I will listen to an eye witness. Besides, he is not condemning the palestians in any way except gullability. And in that he is proved partially right.


Dr. Guy--I don't think he's an eye-witness.

As a child, I watched a Syrian play about the war of October 1973.


If he was a child when watching a play aobut 1973, there is no way he witnessed the formation of the state of Israel in 1948.

When you talk about the Palestinians being gullible, I assume you are referring to when the writer says:

The fact is that the Arab world warned the Palestinians against staying with the Jews...The question is: why did Arabs flee the area that became Israel? After all, the ones who remained in their homes still live there today and prosper.


Benny Morris' research proves that the Palestinians who fled were not being gullible--more than 400 Palestinian villages were destroyed and many, many Palestinians were massacred.

Having said that--it doesn't change the fact that post 1948 Arab nations have done little to assist the Palestinians. I will not deny that Arab nations need to step up to the plate. However, it is naive to believe that Palestinians will accept a little bit of other countries as an end to the conflict. Palestinians are seeking a return to "their" land--not just any land, but specifically the land that they fled in 1948 and 1967. Slicing off a bit of Syria or Jordan does not address the problem when they are seeking bits of Haifa and Jaffo. The Palestinians need to compromise--they can't expect to get it all back (or even a lot of it), but there is no hope for genuine stability and peace in the region if only the Palestinians are compromising. Why should Israelis get all and Palestinians get nought?
on Feb 10, 2005
Why should Israelis get all and Palestinians get nought?


first off.... Israel was the jews first... then why should the jews have their own place??? ummmmm does holocaust ring a bell? and I nor anyone else suggested that the palistinian people should have to move anywhere... the are real muslims , christians and jews living side by side in Israel. peacefully and prosperous too.
2 Pages1 2