Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on May 23, 2011 By Dr Guy In Politics

I heard about Obama's Israel speech, but had not listened to it (do not worry, I rarely listen to speeches by either party).  But one thing bugged me when I heard the sound bites.  I heard the word "contiguous".  But no one was talking about it (right or left).  I finally read an article quoting that part of the speech:

The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their full potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state.

For the uninformed, or just plain ignorant of geography, that sounds like a good thing "Yea, Yea, That's the ticket!".  However to anyone who has even done a modicum of reading on the whole Mid-East issue, that should have sounded alarm bells.  For simply put, Gaza is on the opposite side of Israel.  Ensuring a "contiguous" Palestinian nation would effectively ensure that Israel would not be contiguous!  It would split it in 2.

With the level of world geographic education in the US being what it is, I can understand most not picking up on that problem.  Even for most of the Mainstream Media (since copy writing does not require much of an education and copying DNC talking points is all they do).  But for the "Smartest" man in the world to make such a bone head blunder?  He is either very stupid - or he wants to split Israel in 2. 

And this was the clown that was against interfering in the internal affairs (Iraq) of other nations?


Comments (Page 4)
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on May 29, 2011

Speaking of BS, if I'm not mistaken, Goldstone has repudiated his own report.

on May 29, 2011

Speaking of BS, if I'm not mistaken, Goldstone has repudiated his own report.

Really? I did not know that  . I will see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up. 

Ya, He wrote an article here on the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

But they couldn't get to all of them ...       yet.      vs    lol

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/middleeast/15goldstone.html?_r=1&src=me

JERUSALEM — Three members of the United Nations panel that investigated Israel’s Gaza war two years ago rejected on Thursday an essay written by the fourth, the former chairman Richard Goldstone, in which he retracted the panel’s key conclusions, especially that Israel had deliberately made civilians targets.

 

Let the conspiracy theories roll 

on May 29, 2011

Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Status of specific incidents referred to in the Goldstone Report: Nov 2009

The Goldstone Report states that it examined 36 incidents, however it is hard to determine precisely how this number is arrived at in relation to the events described.  Nonetheless, all the incidents cited in the Report have been or are being examined (12 incidents had not been reported to Israel prior to publication of the Report, and upon hearing of them, investigations were initiated by the IDF). According to Israel's best understanding of the breakdown of incidents in the Report, the current status of these incidents is as follows:

  • 5 incidents were addressed in the framework of the General Staff Command investigations and are currently being examined by the Military Attorney General (para. 2 above).
  • 5 incidents were examined and found not to present any basis for suspecting that laws had been violated (para. 3 above).
  • 16 incidents are currently under process of examination (para. 4 above).
  • 10 are the subject of criminal investigations (para.5 above). 

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Examination_allegations_by_IDF_Oct_2009.htm

 

 

GAZA OPERATION INVESTIGATIONS: AN UPDATE: Jan 2010

From January 2002 through December 2008, there were 1,467 criminal investigations into
alleged misconduct by IDF soldiers, leading to 140 indictments against soldiers for
alleged crimes committed against the Palestinian population. Of these indictments, as of
December 2008, 103 defendants were convicted and ten cases are still pending. During
2009, 236 criminal investigations were opened, and 14 indictments were filed against
officers and soldiers.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/8E841A98-1755-413D-A1D2-8B30F64022BE/0/GazaOperationInvestigationsUpdate.pdf
 
 
 

IDF Military Advocate General Implements New Investigation Policy in West Bank

http://idfspokesperson.com/2011/04/06/idf-military-advocate-general-implements-new-investigation-policy-in-west-bank/
 
 
ALMOST 10 YEARS and all I can find is a conviction for using a 9 year old boy to open suspicious bags. No time, just probation. 
Where are these
convictions reported and for what were they convicted?
on May 29, 2011

Seems like there could be stuff like this used ... naw ... just hearsay, go figure. A picture used to be worth a thousand words, but now a thousand pictures are negated by a single word instead.

on May 31, 2011

myfist0
Sorry for going off topic but it irks me when things are taken out of context. Last post on this subject.

Off topic and tangents are always allowed on my articles.  I may not comment on them, but one never knows where the Muse will take you,

myfist0
but that video CLEARLY SHOWS how the MSM edits videos to support the position of the Government.

Depends upon who is in charge.  I doubt Rather's piece was in support of the government - but it sure was edited!

on May 31, 2011

Leauki
Heck, 4000 square miles of mostly uninhabited desert is claimed as "Palestinian land" by the map. What exactly makes uninhabited land "Palestinian"? Maybe such land is "Jewish"? Who knows?

Or native American since that is all we gave them when we conquered them.  Actually, I thought (having heard, not having done any research on it), that the arid land was thrown in as a bone to the Jewish state since the powers that be at the time (France, GB, USA) did not think it was worth anything, no one owned it, and it made it look nicer on paper about their magnanimity (GBs)

on May 31, 2011

MasonM
I doubt that Dumbo Ears even knows what the word "contiguous" means. It was just a word in the speech he was parroting.

You have a point.  Mr. Teleprompter knows, but he only talks to Obama it seems.

lulapilgrim
Obama may not be able to find Isreal on the globe without help, but he sures knows where to go for Jewish money as he won the Jewish vote, one of the most reliable Democrat voting blocs.

Just as many people calling themselves Christian, are CINOs, so it appears that many Jews in the US are JINOs.  They care more for the politics of the USA than they do with their Heritage.  That in itself is not bad (the slam against Muslims is they care more for their heritage then they do for their native countries - if you are born there, you are a native).

on May 31, 2011

myfist0
You would see quite a heated argument over "contiguous" . I think that it is the majority of North Americans that don't know what it means.

Starting with Obama.

 

on May 31, 2011

Dr Guy

Quoting myfist0, reply 40You would see quite a heated argument over "contiguous" . I think that it is the majority of North Americans that don't know what it means.

 

Starting with Obama.

 

What we do know is that when speaking of land, "Contiguous" has a definite meaning.

What we don't know is who put "contiguous" in Obama's speech.  

 

on May 31, 2011

lulapilgrim
What we don't know is who put "contiguous" in Obama's speech.

Mr. Teleprompter.

on May 31, 2011

Dr Guy

Quoting Leauki, reply 21Heck, 4000 square miles of mostly uninhabited desert is claimed as "Palestinian land" by the map. What exactly makes uninhabited land "Palestinian"? Maybe such land is "Jewish"? Who knows?

Or native American since that is all we gave them when we conquered them.  Actually, I thought (having heard, not having done any research on it), that the arid land was thrown in as a bone to the Jewish state since the powers that be at the time (France, GB, USA) did not think it was worth anything, no one owned it, and it made it look nicer on paper about their magnanimity (GBs)

Yes, that's pretty much what happened.

Add to that that Israel was also allied with the Bedouin tribes roaming the Negev desert and you get a more complete picture of everything. The fake map uses the terms "Jewish" and "Palestinian" and include a lot of land owned by Jews as "Palestinian". But those terms also allowed them to include land owned by Bedouins allied with Israel and Druze (also allies of the Zionists) as "Palestinian" land.

Consider Druze politicians in Israel. They generally do not want to be "Palestinians". And most Druze politicians are more Zionist than most Zionist Jews.

Of course, the Arabs got vast tracks of uninhabited desert east of the Jordan. The fake map ignores that by choosing 1946 as the key date. 1946 eastern Palestine was granted independence by Britain and all Jewish property east of the Jordan was expropriated.

on May 31, 2011

Ohh, more comics  .

Before I go into the Druze, lets look at some more comics released by

 Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Center for Special Studies (C.S.S)
 http://www.ajcongress.org/site/DocServer/Part1.pdf?docID=861


OMFG. Now I totally see why Goldstone retracted his report after being presented with such overwhelming evidence.

These comics drawn by 5th graders and presented by Israeli intelligence are so obvious.


Oh wait, there is 1 photo that will convince you even more of the evil Palestinians plot to use human shields.

Anyone remember this US comic?

   
At least the US used 8th graders to draw their comics but the 2nd convinced the american public.

 

 

 

 

on May 31, 2011

Leauki
Consider Druze politicians in Israel. They generally do not want to be "Palestinians". And most Druze politicians are more Zionist than most Zionist Jews.

Where do you find this dribble? Maybe you can take all these propaganda lies back to those 5th graders you used for intelligence. 

Kadima's Deputy Foreign Minister Majali Whbee, a Druze, told the Hebrew-language Ha'aretz newspaper on Sunday, "I personally plan to represent my people faithfully, but also anyone who voted for my party, no matter what sector they come from. I believe in our involvement in Israeli society, not in separate parties."

Balad party MK Said Naffa'a, by contrast, contends that the Druze are really Arabs, and their connection is one not "determined by Zionist party politicians or Herzl. The gamble on the Zionist parties was a failure as can be seen from the difficult situation of the community," he said. Naffa'a added that "Ideological voting only exists in our case – that is, in the Arab parties."http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129717

Today, fewer than 10% of the Druze of the Golan Heights are Israeli citizens; the remainder hold Syrian citizenship.[19]

 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3315769,00.html is a good read.

on Jun 01, 2011

myfist0

Quoting Leauki, reply 56Consider Druze politicians in Israel. They generally do not want to be "Palestinians". And most Druze politicians are more Zionist than most Zionist Jews.

Where do you find this dribble? Maybe you can take all these propaganda lies back to those 5th graders you used for intelligence. 


Kadima's Deputy Foreign Minister Majali Whbee, a Druze, told the Hebrew-language Ha'aretz newspaper on Sunday, "I personally plan to represent my people faithfully, but also anyone who voted for my party, no matter what sector they come from. I believe in our involvement in Israeli society, not in separate parties."

Balad party MK Said Naffa'a, by contrast, contends that the Druze are really Arabs, and their connection is one not "determined by Zionist party politicians or Herzl. The gamble on the Zionist parties was a failure as can be seen from the difficult situation of the community," he said. Naffa'a added that "Ideological voting only exists in our case – that is, in the Arab parties."http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129717


Today, fewer than 10% of the Druze of the Golan Heights are Israeli citizens; the remainder hold Syrian citizenship.[19]

 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3315769,00.html is a good read.

You DO realise that the Syrian Druze on the Golan Heights are not the Israeli Druze I was referring to and are also vastly outnumbered by Israeli Druze, right?

Said Naffa holds a minority opinion among Druze. Majali Wahabi is a mainstream Druze (and was Ariel Sharon's personal ambassador and lieutenant).

You are so ignorant and ridiculously misinformed, it's amazingly arrogant for you to refer to my words as "dribble".

How do I know about the Druze? I studied at the University of Haifa. Haifa is the largest city in the region where most Druze live. (Hint: It's not anywhere near the Golan Heights.) How do I know how Israeli Druze think? Everybody in Israel knows them as majority patriotic model citizens. Israel's most hawkish politicians are Druze.

Far from being "neutral" as you claimed to be, you not only believe any lie told about Jews you encounter as far as you have had the chance to do so here but you are also not even bright enough to know the difference between Syrian Druze in the Golan and the Israeli Druze. You are the first person I meet who confuses the two and thinks I was referring to the Golan Druze when I spoke of Israeli Druze. Man, you even looked it up in Wikipedia and somehow still managed to confuse the two populations.

Another hint: the "people" Wahabi is referring to is the Israeli people. His point is that as an Israeli Arab he still represents the entire people. That's a sensible point to make if one is a member of a minority commanding great respect among the majority. That's why Naffa contradicts Wahabi. Naffa is an Arab Nazi who believes that Arabs should only represent Arabs. He is against mixing ethnicities. Wahabi is for mixing ethnicities and religions. Wahabi's position is not common in the Middle-East outside Israel. In the Middle-East governments usually enforce strict apartheid between ethnicities and religions.

on Jun 01, 2011

I see you are also too dumb to know that drawings can represent things. That Hizbullah usehuman shields and fire from civilian areas is well-known.

Anyway, I found a map of land ownership in Israel in 1945, prepared by the UN. And it mentions public lands:

 

 

It has a more useful differentiation between "Zionist" and "Palestinian".

Zionists were certain Jewish organisations (for example the JNF) who bought land for Jewish settlements.

Palestinians were people who lived in British Palestine; Jews, Arabs, Circassians, Turks and a few British organisations.

Note that Zionist organisations didn't buy land that was already owned by Jews or older Jewish organisations. I don't know if the above map includes the Rothschild family's land as Zionist-owned (since it was not owned by the JNF or other public Zionist organisatio), but I assume it does (I don't know if the UN included private Zionists as "Zionists" in the statistical sense).

Jerusalem was a Jewish-majority city before the Zionists ever made it to Israel. So the JNF never bought much land in Jerusalem. The entire western half of Jerusalem was Jewish and about half of the east as well (until 1948 when the Jews were expelled and the synagogues destroyed, the lawsuits are still going on).

 

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