Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Not according to Real Scientists
Published on March 2, 2010 By Dr Guy In Politics

The fallout from the "non-scandal" (as the American MSM likes to call it ) of the CRU/East Anglia unauthorized disclosure continues to gain steam.  Phil Jones, the leader of the unit prior to the disclosure, has resigned as its head.  Penn State has decided to stage a mock inquiry into the actions of Michael Mann (purposefully ignoring the pertinent questions), and even Gavin Schmidt of NASA has come under fire for essentially bilking the government for private time spent on the propaganda wing of the scandal - realclimate.,org. 

Many questions continue, and will continue, to swirl around the controversy for one primary reason.  The lack of openness in the climate debate from the Anthropogenic Global Warming group.  But the dust is starting to settle on the matter as real scientists now weigh in on the matter.

And like real scientists, they are not tackling the "science" of the matter, as their expertise is often in other areas, but on the behavior of the so called scientists themselves.  Surprisingly (or not so), they mince few words in condemning the actions of not only the East Anglia group, but of all people that have attempted to thwart the study and inquiry into Global Climate Change.

The United Kingdom (UK) Parliament has instigated an investigation into the disclosed emails and what they say about the science of AGW.  So far, 4 submissions have brought steaming condemnation and/or further evidence of the efforts of the AGW crowd to surpress the science.  While many on the AGW side will undoubtably question the motives of the 4 submissions, as well as the funding, the reality is these are unimpeachable sources for the testimony they give.

And the testimony is damning.  No less than Phil Jones, in a recent interview, maintained that hiding data was "standard Practice".  He has been joined by Michal Mann, in an interview with Point of Inquiry, maintaining the same stance, while at the same time saying they had released all of the data and program code (Note:  The release of the data was forced by a submission of Mann to Science, which requires all supporting data to be released.  He did not release it willingly as he indicates).  And not to be outdone, Jim Bouldin of UC Davis maintains on RealClimate.org in response to the question of releasing the data that:

Second, there is an enormous amount of climate data available freely via the web. See the "Data Sources" tab on the top of the main page. Third, you are wrong on "the worst that can happen"--it can be used by those without the proper training and understanding of the issues, whose goal is to find fault and defame rather than improve understanding, as McIntyre is an outstanding example of. This is, combined with his demanding attitude and tactics, are why he engenders animosity

piling on is Gavin Schmidt, whose salary is paid by NASA, when asked why not comply with FOI (i.e. be open with the data), he chimes in with:

Because, as he has explained frequently, that in order to get the maximum amount of data available they gave assurances and signed memoranda with many National weather services not to distribute raw data that the NWS's would rather sell. If you want the free stuff, you can just look at the GHCN records (which is the basis for the GISTEMP product - all of which is online and available for anyone to look at)

Which of course is a lie, but then why be honest when you are already shown to be crooked?

I am sure there are others in the crowd that maintain the same secretive nature for their data.  And for good reason, from their viewpoint.  Since every time they release the data, real scientists find fault with it. 

But real scientists also find fault with their behavior.  In one of the first submissions to the UK Parliament Inquiry, the Institute of Physics states unequivocally:

The CRU e-mails as published on the internet provide prima facie evidence of determined and co-ordinated refusals to comply with honourable scientific traditions and freedom of information law. The principle that scientists should be willing to expose their ideas and results to independent testing and replication by others, which requires the open exchange of data, procedures and materials, is vital. The lack of compliance has been confirmed by the findings of the Information Commissioner. This extends well beyond the CRU itself - most of the e-mails were exchanged with researchers in a number of other international institutions who are also involved in the formulation of the IPCC's conclusions on climate change.

and even go so far as to question the results based upon the behavior:

The e-mails reveal doubts as to the reliability of some of the reconstructions and raise questions as to the way in which they have been represented; for example, the apparent suppression, in graphics widely used by the IPCC, of proxy results for recent decades that do not agree with contemporary instrumental temperature measurements.

But most telling is their statement of collusion and exclusion:

The e-mails illustrate the possibility of networks of like-minded researchers effectively excluding newcomers.

The IOP was not the only submission as the Royal Society of Chemist also submitted a damning paper to the Inquiry Board. The RSoC points out even that Climate Science is not a science onto itself, but multi-disciplinary:

Sharing information is especially important in multi-disciplinary research, where progress is very much dependent on willing and effective communication between different speciality areas

Getting to the heart of the matter, these scientist then state:

The true nature of science dictates that research is transparent and robust enough to survive scrutiny. A lack of willingness to disseminate scientific information may infer that the scientific results or methods used are not robust enough to face scrutiny, even if this conjecture is not well-founded.

And more so, in direct contradiction to Bouldin and Schmidt:

It is also imperative that scientific information is made available to the wider community for scrutiny: the validity and essence of research relies upon its ability to stand up to review.

And of course in direct contradiction to the name callers and politicians (those who state the science is settled):

In fact, advances in science frequently occur when the prevailing view is challenged by informed scepticism, this is fundamental to the scientific method and should be encouraged, even if controversial.

These are but a couple of the organizations that have submitted damning data to the Inquiry.  Some are individuals telling of instances where the AGW group threatened them if they released data and/or published papers.  Not all of the names spring to mind as belonging to the Skeptic camp, as Dr. Benny Peiser shows both in the released emails, and ones not released of the proof that they were out to distort, intimidate, and suppress views and papers they did not agree with or that called attention to their "Factual Errors" or even "fraud Allegations".  All Dr. Peiser was doing was publishing a paper that called into question the Chinese data used by Dr. Wei-Chyung Wang in 2 of his papers.

Of course the more renowned skeptic, Steve McIntyre, also documents, for the inquiry, the withholding of data concerning the Polar Ural Tress.  In the submission, McIntyre documents withholding of data:

Jones: We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it.

And the suppression of peer review:

If published as is, this paper could really do some damage. It is also an ugly paper to review because it is rather mathematical, with a lot of Box-Jenkins stuff in it. It won't be easy to dismiss out of hand as the math appears to be correct theoretically

Recently rejected two papers (one for JGR and for GRL) from people saying CRU has it wrong over Siberia. Went to town in both reviews, hopefully successfully. If either appears I will be very surprised

I am really sorry but I have to nag about that review - Confidentially I now need a hard and if required extensive case for rejecting

I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin [Trenberth] and I will keep them out somehow - even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is !

The submissions continue and I am sure there will be more.  But they clearly demonstrate that while Al Gore and politicians of all stripes avow the 'science is settled", they are the only ones to believe that.  For it took unscientific practices, criminal refusal to conform to established laws, and "networks of like-minded researchers effectively excluding newcomers" to get the "concensus" that they are so fond of yelling about.  Not real science or scientific work. 

A conspiracy?  Not on the scale that some would try to laugh at.  But then it did not take a lot of people to do what the gang at East Anglia along with Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt, Jim Bouldin and the handful of others did.  It did take collusion, and that, as we see, is evident and damning of the people involved with the science, if not the science itself.

 


Comments
on Mar 02, 2010

Another group has weighed in on the debate.  The Royal Statistical Society has basically said the same thing as the IOP and RSoC.  Hiding data is not conducive to good science:

The RSS believes that the debate on global warming is best served by having the models used and the data on which they are based in the public domain. Where such information is publicly available it is possible independently to verify results. The ability to verify models using publicly available data is regarded as being of much greater importance than the specific content of email exchanges between researchers.

 

on Mar 02, 2010

'Magine that.  Deniers Rule!!

Note to Mumble: That's a joke.

Reply from Mumble: You're the joke.  (Just to save him the trouble - keyboarding can be such an effort when your fingers are so heavy-laden with condescension.)

on Mar 02, 2010

I believe, after reading much of the back and forth in the other article, that he has retreated back to his access regulated blog, were he can control the discussion more to his liking.

on Mar 03, 2010

Daiwa
'Magine that.  Deniers Rule!!

Note to Mumble: That's a joke.

Reply from Mumble: You're the joke.  (Just to save him the trouble - keyboarding can be such an effort when your fingers are so heavy-laden with condescension.)

You channel him so well!

on Mar 03, 2010

Nitro Cruiser
I believe, after reading much of the back and forth in the other article, that he has retreated back to his access regulated blog, were he can control the discussion more to his liking.

Actually he is doubling down.  Mostly posting just rants about "deniers".  And then trying to impugn the Scientists that have spoken up on the issue.  It is kind of sad.  Prof. Acton is backing off of AGW (and saying they have to go back to the original data), yet MF is acting like it is all a big conspiracy against him.

on Mar 05, 2010

I guess someone forgot the whole "peer reviewed" part of science.

interesting to note that AGW alarmists claim that there is a scientific consensus and that all conclusions have been peer reviewed. (a bit hard to do with the data and models being secret and only the conclusions being given to us)

on Mar 05, 2010

taltamir
I guess someone forgot the whole "peer reviewed" part of science.

interesting to note that AGW alarmists claim that there is a scientific consensus and that all conclusions have been peer reviewed. (a bit hard to do with the data and models being secret and only the conclusions being given to us)

Part of the slam against the "Climate Science" field is their incestuous nature when it comes to peer review.  The process is supposed to be dispassionate and fair, yet clearly that has not been the case.  There is no doubt, and the submittal of Peiser to the Board of inquiry clearly shows, that the so called scientists went out of their way to subvert papers they deemed non-supportive of their pre-conceived conclusions.

on Mar 05, 2010

when I say "someone" I meant the green activists. Lets not insult real scientists by referring to con artists in lab coats as scientists. Anyone can buy a labcoat. (and for that matter, have a degree).

I refuse to call terrorist "freedom fighters", and I am sure not going to call eco-terrorists scientists.

on Mar 05, 2010

taltamir
when I say "someone" I meant the green activists. Lets not insult real scientists by referring to con artists in lab coats as scientists. Anyone can buy a labcoat. (and for that matter, have a degree).

I refuse to call terrorist "freedom fighters", and I am sure not going to call eco-terrorists scientists.

I question some of the AGW groups as being real scientists.  As apparently do other scientists based upon the submissions to the Board of Inquiry.  That is not to say that anyone believing in AGW is a fraud, nor that all the scientists working on it are.  But clearly the revelations of the past 4 months show that many do not understand what science is.

on Mar 05, 2010

Certainly real scientists are working on it. For example, many within the IPCC have come out and publically stated that the IPCC political leaders are falsifying their data.

For example, the head of the IPCC hurricane research department quit in a rage, and his in letter of resignation (which he published) he contended that his team found no evidence AGW caused increased hurricane activity. Yet the politicians running the place falsified their report and claimed that they found a conclusive link between the two in their published results.

A few others did not quit, and are explaining exactly what is wrong with AGW while STILL being members of the IPCC.

As for people who believe it... If they promote it as fact they are ignorant, if they claim to be scientist and promote it via lies they are frauds, if they just believe it then they are duped. But when I say frauds I am not meaning to imply that everyone who has ever believed AGW is a fraud.

the reason it angers me so much is because I used to deride people for opposing AGW. I trusted in NASA and the government to not perpetuate such lies so carelessly (after all, I have a limited amount of time and cannot be bothered to personally verify every tiny little aspect of science). But when I finally looked into it I saw the fraud and lies and realized I had been duped by people who trample on the very name of science (which is a pretty big deal for me as well, I am an atheist who holds science in the highest of regards).

anyways, it is pretty ironic that the thing that pushed me most towards conservatism was that my liberal indoctrination as a child included:

1. The principles of science. And disdain towards blind faith & religion (liberalism is a religion)

2. The notion that good people (liberals) are open minded, and evil people (conservatives) are closed minded and bigoted. Lo and behold, actually listening to conservatives and liberals with an open mind and understanding the principles behind each movements shows who the real bigots are, and shows who is right and who is talking out of their nether regions (the left)

on Mar 05, 2010

taltamir
Certainly real scientists are working on it. For example, many within the IPCC have come out and publically stated that the IPCC political leaders are falsifying their data.

For example, the head of the IPCC hurricane research department quit in a rage, and his in letter of resignation (which he published) he contended that his team found no evidence AGW caused increased hurricane activity.

Yes, some of the strongest critics are former members of the IPCC review panel.  And of course some of those critics are also some of the best Climatologists in the world. 

the reason it angers me so much is because I used to deride people for opposing AGW. I trusted in NASA and the government to not perpetuate such lies so carelessly (after all, I have a limited amount of time and cannot be bothered to personally verify every tiny little aspect of science). But when I finally looked into it I saw the fraud and lies and realized I had been duped by people who trample on the very name of science (which is a pretty big deal for me as well, I am an atheist who holds science in the highest of regards).

That is very telling.  For while I am called a denier, I am more accuratly a skeptic.  But not of Global Climate Change, or even AGW!  Yes, I think we are having an impact.  But based upon my research and that of some of the "deniers" the impact is not as catastrophic as the chicken littles want you to believe.  Nor has anyone proven that it will be determental given the reality of the situation.

It all comes back to "follow the money".  It is not a coincidence that most of the scientists pushing the hysteria are heavily invested in Green Tech companies.  They figured to cook the market and make a killing and that is what angers them so much.  We are robbing them of their ill gotten gains.

on Mar 06, 2010

That is very telling.  For while I am called a denier, I am more accuratly a skeptic.  But not of Global Climate Change, or even AGW!  Yes, I think we are having an impact.  But based upon my research and that of some of the "deniers" the impact is not as catastrophic as the chicken littles want you to believe.  Nor has anyone proven that it will be determental given the reality of the situation.

I think the biggest issue I had with deniers was the whole notion that "humans cannot change the environment, only god can" claim. of course we can change it, look at any city (plus, this sounds a lot like primitive societies beliefs about sun gods and so on... why don't we just sacrifice people to quazacotl like the aztec then). But just because we CAN change doesn't mean we are.

The problem is that according to TV anyone who is even remotely skeptic based on scientific principles is painted as a "god is the only ones who controls the whether" person. but then my amazing power of open minded came to play (as taught by liberals)...

I think it is not helping that there ARE people on the right who are like that in truth. I have met some who DID tell me that only god can affect the whether therefore global warming can't be real. This is also why I am a skeptic of global warming rather then just believe it doesn't exist. For all we know the frauds falsifying data to promote it are the leftist equivalent of those people; who are trying to "help the cause" but are actually doing harm; and there really actually is an AGW effect. Although, right now most the genuine evidence seems to point otherwise.

It all comes back to "follow the money".  It is not a coincidence that most of the scientists pushing the hysteria are heavily invested in Green Tech companies.  They figured to cook the market and make a killing and that is what angers them so much.  We are robbing them of their ill gotten gains.

Its ALWAYS about the money

Doesn't al gore own a carbon trading company?