Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.

Is the title shocking?  Think about it.  When you think about it, the statement is a truism.  No one is saying that half of all children are stupid.  That half of all children are morons.  But the simple fact is that one takes the total sample, adds it up and divides by the number of the population.  That is an average.  And while one may argue that the average is not the median (the median is the true mid point of the population), with a sample size large enough, and the range small enough, they are very close in number.

I read the linked Op-Ed and it got me to thinking along lines that I had not thought of before.  Quite simply, I have agreed that "No Child Left Behind" was a stupid program, but for reasons other than the author presents.  But then when I read the article, I realized there is another reason that the NCLB is a bad program.

Simply put, if we are to "lift" all children up to some arbitrary standard, we have to do one critical thing.  Dumb down the standard until all (or at least the vast majority) of children can meet it.

And what does that do to our education system?  Let's look at it for a minute.  Most schools give out letter grades of A, B, C, D, and F.  C is the average (and for some students and parents - OK). (We will forget AP classes for now).  So if we were being very strict and fair, then half the students would score a C or below in school.  Half would score C+ or better.  That is what one would say about an education system that teaches all students on an equal footing.

But we don't allow that.  We, as a society.  We push all but the most limited of our children to exceed.  Get that A (or !  Go to college!  Make a life for yourself!  Excel!  And in order to do that, what do we do?  We do not flunk 20% of the population (we should, but then we might damage their self esteem).  We do not give out D's and F's like A's and B's either.

Does that mean that our schools are cheating?  Some may, but I don't think it is a conspiracy to cheat.  What it is, is a conspiracy of the government to deny a natural law.  That not all children are above average.

And the real effect is more insidious than what some might at first think, and it is what came to my mind in reading the article.  Some students are being promoted for feel good reasons, but for the most part, the way that we as a society are achieving the goals of NCLB (and other state sponsored programs) is to dumb down the education system.  To the point that we are cheating the true "A" students, and to a lesser extent, the "B" students as well.

We spend tons of money on special education.  And it is law that those students get special help.  I know, as I do have a dyslexic child, and have become very familiar with what they are ENTITLED to, and how fast a school will cave to the demands of a parent with knowledge of the laws on their side.  But how much do we spend on TAG students?  Shockingly, nothing (that is right 0) from the Feds!  And with almost no exceptions, there are no laws that dictate we challenged the TAG students.  And only by the grace of the local school system do programs even exist!  I know, as my other children are all TAG, and I found out that there is NOTHING the school system has to do for them (and hence why I pulled one out of the school system for some home schooling and a stint at a private school).

NCLB and other laws seem noble on paper, and are of course like the "Rah Rah" that we do get from politicians.  But the underlying rot of them is that they neglect our best and brightest as schools do not always have resources to challenge those students.  In a nut shell, we are dumbing down education in America.  And that is a national shame.

Until we as a society, and then our politicians, realize that life is not fair, and that not every student CAN be an Albert Einstein, we are going to continue to cheat our best and brightest when it comes to education.  It is no wonder that year in and year out, the winner of the National Spelling Bee is more likely to be a home schooled child.  Parents are not restricted to teaching to the lowest common denominator. And so they teach to the child.  Teachers are not so blessed as they have 20-25 students, must teach to all the students, at the pace of the slowest.

When I was in school, in Germany, I learned about the German system.  In it, at a relatively early age, students are divided.  The brightest go to a Gymnasium, where they basically are prepared for College.  Others are sent to vocational schools where the emphasis is on learning a trade.  At the time, I thought it was totally unfair, and wrong. 

Now as a father, I don't see it that way.  The Germans are not pretending that everyone can go to college.  They understand what average means, and instead of forcing students ill prepared for a college education to endure failure, they teach them a trade.  In the end, all succeed.  At their respective ventures.  And those who may be mis-assigned to a vo-Tech school?  There are ways they can still get into college, although it is not the normal path.  Nothing is perfect, and at least the Germans seem to be trying to teach to the student, and not to some arbitrary standard made by some bureaucrat in a far distant city.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 20, 2007
Actually, you're expanding on a satirical comment I've made for years as a homeschooler. I've asked repeatedly how we can trust the education of our children to educators who don't see the contradiction of trying to raise every child up to average.

It's like poverty. What a perfect racket for government spending. Statistically, our lowest 13% are always going to be considered "poor", but in America, few of our "poor" live in true poverty.
on Jan 20, 2007

Actually, you're expanding on a satirical comment I've made for years as a homeschooler. I've asked repeatedly how we can trust the education of our children to educators who don't see the contradiction of trying to raise every child up to average.

Very true!  The simple fact is we cannot.  Mathematics, unlike social sciences, is a very rigorous and unbreakable science.  It will not be denied.  Whether you are talking children or poverty.

on Jan 20, 2007
I agree that something does need to change. At first I did not protest to NCLB...I do agree that every child should have the same opportunities in school. But as the years have gone by...I do notice too much focus on one group of kids than others.

Here, we have focused so much on creating inclusion in our school..of having every resource available to the child with special needs.
But what some people fail to remember is that the Gifted and Talented Child IS a student with special needs.

We have kicked ourselves in the butt here the last two years to make sure these GT (as we call them) students do not fall by the wayside.
We are required to have more proof than ever now that we are challenging these children with differentiated curriculum.

Now that leaves the group made up of the Average student? Are we making sure they do not fall by wayside? What are we doing to make sure they are getting the best education possible?

Something does need to change...NCLB definitely does need a do-over.
on Jan 20, 2007

GT

That is TAG - Talented and Gifted.

NCLB definitely does need a do-over.

No, it needs to be done away with.  While I totally agree that special needs need some extra attention (those that can flourish with extra attention), I am appalled when they wanted to put my son in a "diversified" class.  Which would have included everyone from Special needs to TAG.  And I knew that he would be forgotten.  Just because a teacher cannot teach to that range effectively (and I was proven right).

Perhaps a system similar to Germany would not be so bad.  Stigmatism?  I guess that is a natural part of the consequences. But being sensitive to all, means not recognizing all either.  This is not a teacher problem.  Quite simply, it is a PC problem.  And they are sacraficing our best and brightest at the altar of PC.

 

on Jan 20, 2007
I'm glad I finished most of my schooling before that crap went into action. When schools lower their standards they damage the future generations. The grades may look good, but that's because they fix it to look that way. If they keep doing that, then everyone will excel, which means no one will. It just makes the higher end of the spectrum lazy...why waste your energy if there's no incentive? Not all kids are destined to excel...but some are. Focus on the ones that can use the extra education instead of dumbing everything down to make things look good. All A's on a report card doesn't mean a damn thing if that kid can't spell the letter A.

By the way...I was a TAG kid...not bragging or anything, just a fact.

~Zoo

on Jan 20, 2007
NCLB is, in my extremely arrogant, biased opinion, an insult to the intelligence of our teachers. It states that our teachers are not capable of evaluating their students objectively, when most of the teachers are fully capable of such.
on Jan 21, 2007
NCLB is, in my extremely arrogant, biased opinion, an insult to the intelligence of our teachers. It states that our teachers are not capable of evaluating their students objectively, when most of the teachers are fully capable of such.


I'm not opposed to having national standards by any means--in fact, I think that would be nice. I think it would be nice to know that by the end of 12th grade a kid in Maine has to have the same skills to graduate from high school as a kid from California. But like DG said, it's just not statistically possible to have ALL children proficient by 2014 as NCLB legislates. Or EVER for that matter, you know? Just because a kid isn't headed for a bachelor's degree or a Ph.D. doesn't make him or her stupid or useless. I know I need someone to fix my vehicle, take care of my child, or take my blood pressure or temperature when I go to the doctor as well. We also need people to sweep and mop floors, serve and cook at restaurants, etc. They're not the most glamorous jobs, but they're necessary nonetheless. Now if only we could get those jobs to be ones that have a living wage and some kind of benefits...

I teach Title I reading and math to little kids, so I don't have to worry about it much, but my husband just spent a couple of weeks worth of math instruction trying to cram stuff in for the Wyoming state standardized tests. It wasn't in any order that made any sense, but its the way it needed to be done so that it could be taught for the stupid test. Can't a teacher assess throughout the year to see if a student knows the things that s/he needs to know for that particular grade instead of having one large test? Its completely ridiculous. And a waste of precious instructional time the way it is. The way I see it, January is wasted, and April is, too, because the kids take the same test over again then, too.

The kids are the ones that are getting screwed over with NCLB. I'm all about having highly qualified teachings and paras in the classroom (what about highly qualified administrators...meh...I suppose not...they can be idiots), and having high standards and expectations for the students, but I think testing the crap out of kids day in and day out is ridiculous, and taking funding away from schools that don't make Adequate Yearly Progress is bunk, too.
on Jan 21, 2007

If they keep doing that, then everyone will excel, which means no one will

Very well put!

And given your posts and trivia, I am not surprised you are TAG.

on Jan 21, 2007

NCLB is, in my extremely arrogant, biased opinion, an insult to the intelligence of our teachers. It states that our teachers are not capable of evaluating their students objectively, when most of the teachers are fully capable of such.

It is indictive of what they are doing to the kids.  In order to "help" the few that are not cutting it, they penalize all.  You are right, NCLB is the dumbing down of not only students, but bright and dedicated teachers as well.

on Jan 21, 2007

(what about highly qualified administrators...meh...I suppose not...they can be idiots)

I know there are some out there, but more and more it seems that the Administrators are just automatons that read and regurgitate the rules, with no intelligence involved.  And that goes all the way up to the Fed DOE.

on Jan 21, 2007
he Germans are not pretending that everyone can go to college. They understand what average means, and instead of forcing students ill prepared for a college education to endure failure, they teach them a trade. In the end, all succeed. At their respective ventures. And those who may be mis-assigned to a vo-Tech school? There are ways they can still get into college, although it is not the normal path.


This is interesting Doc - it is a good idea and as you say it probably does not set them up for failure - however - does it not also have a negative effect (on some) in as much as a student who is actually destined to be a multi millionaire entrepreneur business man does not end up going that route because he settles into accepting "what he is" and ends up doing a trade all his life instead of having the drive ion him to face and accept a challenge that results in his taking a risk and making millions which results in him employing hundreds of others etc.?

For example a bloke in SA Tony Factor (I think that was his name) could not read or write - yet he became a big business force in the furniture(?) industry...made millions and employed thousands...if the German system was in place he may not have gone that route an not touched so many peoples lives...he might have been a mechanic or something.

I suppose really it has both good and bad sides to it as most things do, but generally I think this is probably a very neat way of educating.
on Jan 21, 2007
Fifty percent is not good but consider 30-40% in Britain.

It would take an essay to describe why there are failings in the education systems of many countries (and I may still be wide of the mark---even as an educationist), but there are two things that I THINK are wrong:
1.We seem to be curriculum and exam driven to such an extent that we are forgetting that more time should be spent on the three Rs. A child who cannot read,write or calculate, is already at a massive disadvantage in the system that lies ahead of him. I was educated in the fifties and could read well by age 5. There was nothing wrong with the fiftie's system I grew up in. Why? Because my ability to read (which improved my writing skills too), opened every door to the education in front of me.
2. The education programmes for primary school children (where children get that important grounding), are, in many countries, being formulated by academics who have little knowledge of how little children learn. You don't need fancy degrees or fancy ideas to work out how children learn or how they should learn. You need an intimate knowledge of the teaching of reading and the building of reading skills i.e. writing expression, research, etc

Here's a saying I heard years ago:
" Teach a child to read and a world of joy and new experiences awaits him,
The child who cannot read finds so many doors locked."

I'll post on this topic soon.
on Jan 21, 2007
Just because a kid isn't headed for a bachelor's degree or a Ph.D. doesn't make him or her stupid or useless.



Absolutely right Marcie! The thing is that too many children get passed over, just because they are marked as stupid, especially when they can't keep up with other students in the class. It may just be because of one simple thing, but the teacher and the system has no time to find out and he or she gets shoved into special Ed.


know I need someone to fix my vehicle, take care of my child, or take my blood pressure or temperature when I go to the doctor as well. We also need people to sweep and mop floors, serve and cook at restaurants, etc. They're not the most glamorous jobs, but they're necessary nonetheless. Now if only we could get those jobs to be ones that have a living wage and some kind of benefits...



Ditto on the living wage and benefits part! We do need someone that does a little of everything in our society, has been noted by some comments, they need to know that there's nothing wrong in having to sweep floor or wash dishes. It's an honest living and an individual can always go after bigger and better eventually.
on Jan 21, 2007
As for Standardized testing, I've been doing it since my first year of teaching and I am sick of it. I always tell my parents, "If it were up to me, I wouldn't give your child this test..."

It just puts so much pressure on the districts, and of course this pressure stretches out to us, then our students, and then even to their parents.

IF the education "honchos" do decide to keep the standardized test, then I really hope they consider using it as a formative assessment instead of a summative one.
If it were used as a formative test, we can then spend the rest of the year working with these kids in the areas they need AND use alternative teaching methods (instead of just "teaching" them to pass a test...)

As much as I try to make my lessons fun and unique for my students, and as much as they tell us that we can still be successful without teaching to the test, we still feel pressure to make sure those students have the skills to pass the test. And if we don't get them to pass...well, we will definitely have people almost at our throats.

on Jan 21, 2007
it seems that the Administrators are just automatons that read and regurgitate the rules, with no intelligence involved.


This is true...they start teaching to the tests. Basically, they drill all the crap that's on these state exams into the kids' heads all year...and that is not how you're supposed to learn. A good learning environment covers facts, opinions, and thoughts on the material as well as relating it to other things in life. Teaching in block form is not a good way to get kids to think. Even if kids aren't super scientists, it's the thinking and learning how to connect different things that really matter. That's what education is...absorbing knowledge and being able to apply it. When you're teaching to a test, it's all memorization, basically...and that doesn't help a damn thing, because kids will be burnt out on just trying to know stuff and will eventually start hating school and being bored even more and that hurts education as well.

Whew...that was a mouthful.

~Zoo
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