Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on December 21, 2006 By Dr Guy In Blogging

Ok, I know there are a lot of differences (and I am oh so glad for that), but this is just one I have noted.  Not even recently, but about 34 years ago.  Some may find this insightful, others will go "ho-hum" and others will go "No way you stupid jerk!".  WHatever your reaction, that is fine.  As I am male, I may be wrong, so this is my disclaimer.  This is my perception.

I have been faced with several cathartic moments in my life.  Being 50, that is not surprising.  But I do know that the women in my life in those times wanted something else, something that I did not, could not, or would not share.

In each of those cathartic moments, yes very sad times as usually we are not brought to our knees during elation times, I wanted to internalize the pain.  I did not want to talk.  I did not want to share.  I did not want a shoulder to cry on.  I had to deal with my loss, our loss (in some cases) and in the british sense, keep a stiff upper lip to keep things going.  My fault, your fault, nobody's fault, it did not matter.  I was not trying to assign fault. I was simply trying to come to grips with a radical change in my life situation, and I had to do it myself.

Expressions of sympathy were fine.  As I did appreciate your understanding the loss.  But then expressions of "can we talk" were always met with a polite "perhaps later".  In other words, no, I dont.  But then I did not want to be rude, and I am me, and you are not, so I do not expect you to understand that.  So I internalized until I could rationalize and understand the loss.  My fault, your fault, nobody's fault.  It did not matter.  Fault was not an issue.

Having grown up with 4 sisters, a very strong mother, and then later 2 daughters (and a now ex wife), I noticed that my reaction was not that of the women.  For them, the cathartic event was time to talk.  To "bleed out the poison" so to speak.  To lance the wound.  Oh, they grieved.  Indeed as much or more.  But they needed to talk about it, to verbalize it. To evoke understanding in others.  And that is fine.  For if all humans were the same, we would be a very sad and dull lot!

So I will listen, but I really cannot talk.  I am internalizing it.  In time, I will come to a point were I accept it, and understand it.  In the beginning there may be blame, most notably on me for not doing more.  But eventually, I come to grips with it.  And life goes on.  Not with a hole, but with a piece missing from the event.  But the human body manages to heal over that and leave the reminder of the things that made it a cathartic event.  And we then think of those, not our lack of doing something to prevent or ameleriorate the event.

With the women in my life, they mourn it.  Then they have to talk about it.  Then they accept it and go on.  But the talking seems to be an important part of it.  It helps them heal.  I have come to understand it, and I let them do it. Since men are so obtuse as not to understand, they reach out to those who can.  Other women.  And the other women know.  So they are there for them.  As are we, just in a different capacity.  We care as much, and grieve as much.  Just not the same way.

This is not a revelation to most, it is heresy to some.  It is idiocy to others.  But as this is my blog, and my life experiences, this is just one mans opinion. Perhaps it will help some.  Perhaps not.

But life will go on for all of us. Just in different ways.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 21, 2006

Insightful,  interesting,  and poignant.

Good blog Dr. Guy

on Dec 21, 2006
Yes (most) women do find it easier to talk and discuss than men do, I have noticed that.

My experience has shown me that men tend to think you are laying blame when you try to discuss - which is not always the case - you are just trying to work through something and understand - for me they seem to get a persecution complex that springs up when women want to talk. hhmmm I find it quite amusing.
on Dec 21, 2006

Insightful, interesting, and poignant.

Good blog Dr. Guy

Thank you.  I hope this explains better.

on Dec 21, 2006

My experience has shown me that men tend to think you are laying blame when you try to discuss - which is not always the case

That is another facet of it.  Not laying blame.  We have already accepted the blame, but do not want to be reminded of it (and yes, that is not fair as it is not true either).  It is part of the male protector sense.  It went wrong, it must be our fault.  In time we realize (if it is truly not), that is part of the male personna.

Talking about it, as women do, and they are not (most of the time I would guess), laying blame, just means we see it as such due to OUR guilt.  Not the circumstances or the facts.

So we internalize it.  Different stages for all of us, but in the end we get to the same place.  Just by different paths.

on Dec 21, 2006
Yes, I find this extremely frustrating about the male animal. I can't read your mind, please tell me what you're feeling. Talk to me. Tell me if there is something I can do to make things better. Don't shut me out. I guess this part of the whole mars and venus thing.
on Dec 21, 2006

Yes, I find this extremely frustrating about the male animal. I can't read your mind, please tell me what you're feeling. Talk to me. Tell me if there is something I can do to make things better. Don't shut me out. I guess this part of the whole mars and venus thing.

It is indeed.  I understand your frustration.  But I cant change who I am.  We are programmed that way.  At least I am, as I said, I am not speaking for all men.  Just the ones I understand.  And the one I understand the most is me.

But know (and like Parated2k has already been banished from the male club, so will I be), that we love you, and know what you are going through even if we cannot go there with you.  We must travel our own path.

Ok, Ted, make a space on the banished bench for me.

on Dec 21, 2006
Doc,

I think I might be joining you and Ted on the bench as well. I'm not shy about letting those close to me know how I'm feeling and, for the most part, I get on better with women than I do with men. I like being a guy but I don't necessarily like hanging out with 'em...
on Dec 21, 2006


Sure women like to talk things out, whenever they're up to it. It helps to clear the air and to move forward with the healing process. Just like for some, shopping or eating might be it as well.

It's always good when they male in the relationship will allow ther woman to do whatever she needs to heal, and vice versa.

Men can be hard to read sometimes though, as you noted. It would be great if the man would be just as open, but as you said, men do handle things in a different way.


I think I might be joining you and Ted on the bench as well.


Well, guys, nothing wrong with that some of the time!
on Dec 21, 2006
tonight my husband and I had a "little" argument and it involved conversing. I was telling him about a conversation I had earlier today with an elderly lady and he interrupted with a "what's the point?" Well I didn't really have a point, I was just rehashing an earlier conversation that I thought was cute. "Does everything always have to have a "point?" That's what I said. Sometimes guys can be so logical!! Basically I guess he just doesn't like to listen to what he deems empty conversation.

I grew up with brothers and later had only sons. When I grew up I felt more comfortable with the guys preferring playing pickup football to playing with barbies. It's no different now. While I have lots of gal friends, I think generally I get along much better with the guys than the girls especially the really froo froo girls.
on Dec 21, 2006
I think I am somewhere in the middle. I like to say whatever happened, fix it then move on and then that is the end. My sister likes to go on and on about stuff, but really doesn't care if there is a solution.

My husband is an internalizer too. He is getting better though. Like Loca said, we can't read minds. I don't want to have a full on chatfest...but I don't want to ignore it either.

I guess that is why we have to always work on our communication skills.

on Dec 22, 2006

I think I might be joining you and Ted on the bench as well. I'm not shy about letting those close to me know how I'm feeling and, for the most part, I get on better with women than I do with men. I like being a guy but I don't necessarily like hanging out with 'em...

Ah Dyna, you can only join us by revealing men secrets.

But we will welcome you to the club anyway as you did reveal your men secrets.

on Dec 22, 2006

Men can be hard to read sometimes though, as you noted. It would be great if the man would be just as open, but as you said, men do handle things in a different way.

Understanding that is the best way to understand the differences between men and women.  We dont have to like it, but then I dont think god programmed us that way.

on Dec 22, 2006

Sometimes guys can be so logical!!

We try to be.

on Dec 22, 2006

I guess that is why we have to always work on our communication skills.

Life, and especially marriage, is a series of compromises.  Very few can live in isolation - in which they do not need to compromise.  So yes, we do try to communicate, and suceed for somethings.  But for major moments, we retreat to the safety of our programming and deal with it the way we know how to.

on Dec 22, 2006
move over make space the bench is getting full!




never mind guys if you have been pushed out of the male club, you still get it and have fun! Probably more than the blokes in the boys club.
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