Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on September 12, 2006 By Dr Guy In Blogging

Ok, yesterday, I posed a question for old (excuse me, mature) folks about women and do you remember.  Some on their way to Adulthood (ok!  You can be adults!), chimed in as well.  But this question is for everyone.  Us old (mature geezers) and the New Adults (how is that for PC?).

How much math can you do in your head?  Without benefit of a calculator (for the ones that never saw the series "Dukes of Hazzard", 'cack-a-lator' was what Boss Hogg called a calculator).

Seriously.  How bad have we gotten?  Can you look at 2 products with differing prices and weights/volumes, and figureout the best value?  That is simple math.  How about Algebra.  Can you figure out the best solution to a deck or ramp given the basic parameters?

This is not a generational thing actually.  My wife just called and was asking me math questions for her tutoree.  Not hard ones (if you need a GREAT Paralegal in Family or Bankruptcy law, she can save you a ton!).  But she was unsure.  As are most of the people I deal with daily.

I got a 'cack-a-lator' when I graduated from High School. It could do the 4 basic math functions.  Add, subtract, multiply and divide.  That was it.

I took chemistry and learned how to compute the avagodro (sp) number on paper.  I did calculus on pages of paper (no, I dont do that in my head, just rough estimates).  yet none of my kids have ever had to attack math without a calculator.  And I suspect most of the youth today dont either.

Can you figure a square root without one?

Mason wrote an article about Power and how we were Junkies.  but it goes beyond that.  We are junkies of technology.  As we are rapidly losing the abilty to do simple math without it.

I find myself an oddity.  Friends like to challenge me on math things with their friends only to prove I can compute the square root of a number to 1 decimal point with out benefit of a calculator off the top of my head (you want more decimal points?  Give me a few minutes).

And that worries me.  Calculators are fine.  But not in a classroom. 

What am I saying?  Gack!  A calculator is just a simple computer!  Do I not want computers in classrooms?

Actually that is what I am saying.  teaching Computers as a part of the curriculm is fine.  using them as a part of it is not.  And neither are calculators.  Figuring out how much farther you can go on a quarter tank of gas should be a mental exercise, not a computer one.  But we are becoming dependant upon the machines and that does scare me.

For without the machines, we then cannot survive.

Or maybe I am just an old fart that worries for nothing.  Cashiers dont need to know how to add and subtract any longer.  Students are not being taught that, only which buttons to push.

yea, I am an old fart.  But that does not mean I have to like every thing about modern technology.  Basics should be learned before our children spout "I found it on Google".


Comments (Page 1)
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on Sep 12, 2006
I was brought up without a calculator, we had to use our noggins in class not a calculator. However, I was damned useless at math even worse now!

I have to say that I do not agree with calculators in school classrooms. College and varsity yes but basic math should be learned with brain power not battery power.
on Sep 12, 2006

Well Doc,  here's one of my weak points ( among many) .   Math is my weakest subject,  while I didn't attend college as in regular college, I have  2nd and 3rd year college abilities,  in English, Spelling, ect and math is at a 7th grade level!!

I never took alegbra,  and certainly not calculus, nor geometry.  Forget trig!  I can count and make change,  and figure the simpler numbers in my head.  We didn't have calculators when I was in Junior and Senior High School....we used scratch paper to figure out the work

and all this talk about classes and school and I find I"m a little homesick tonight....have a good evenig Doc

on Sep 12, 2006
While my wife was a student teacher (for Math) she handed out a quiz and told the 8th grade class to put away their calculators. After the class did poorly she talked to the teacher to decide what needs to be done to help the kids do better next time. She was then chewed out for not letting the kids use calculators for the quiz.

I wonder if my wife would have been chewed out for not letting kids consult Wikipedia on their cell phones in a history exam.

The worst commentary on our high schools' math programs is the number of college students who have to take sub-101 level math classes.
on Sep 12, 2006
I can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, roots, exponents, differentials, and some limits in my head. Mind you, I can do all that with fractions just the same...I usually like to write things down, though.

On paper, I can do all types of math up to Calculus...without a calculator. I only use calculators in one of three instances:

1. To check my work
2. If the numbers are very hard to work with...(i.e. Chemistry problems with a bunch of floating decimels or sin, cos, tan stuff)
3. If it's necessary...let's face it, sometimes you just need one for graphing or doing a whole chain of math.

I try not to rely on calculators, my high school math teacher taught us that one...because he wanted to see our work.

~Zoo
on Sep 12, 2006
Im pretty good at most math functions in my head, until it get into calculus and most trig. Sorry, I can't do a SIN, COS TAN in my noggin. If I start getting muddled, I can certainly do most arithmatic and algebraic functions on paper...oh, I cant do LOGs in my head, but I can handle exponentials either mentally or on paper.

I did complete up to differential equations in college. I really dont know how people do calculus in their heads, but I do have a great power of estimation when I do so...usually

It really is a little scary. What will some people do when electricity is not at hand, and complex issues arise?

I don't beleive any school should allow a calculator until at least advanced algebra. Oh, and you need to learn how to graph on paper before you use a calculator as well.

One thing I always use a calculator for is my financials.

Like Zoo, even in college it was always required to show our work, even if we were using a calculator.
on Sep 13, 2006

I have to say that I do not agree with calculators in school classrooms. College and varsity yes but basic math should be learned with brain power not battery power.

I agree.  WHile you state you were bad at math, at least you learned how to do it.  One day that will come in handy.

on Sep 13, 2006

We didn't have calculators when I was in Junior and Senior High School....we used scratch paper to figure out the work

We had slide rulers.  However that was for Chemistry, not math class.  I wonder if there is anyone out there now who can use a slide rule (I mean the younger ones)?  I still have mine BTW.

on Sep 13, 2006

I wonder if my wife would have been chewed out for not letting kids consult Wikipedia on their cell phones in a history exam.

A school district here issues notebooks to every secondary student.  Kind of hard to stop the kids from cheating on any test with the INternet only a click away.

on Sep 13, 2006

I can do addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, roots, exponents, differentials, and some limits in my head. Mind you, I can do all that with fractions just the same...I usually like to write things down, though.

I am impressed!  There is hope for the younger generation!  Congrats! and thanks.

on Sep 13, 2006

Im pretty good at most math functions in my head, until it get into calculus and most trig. Sorry, I can't do a SIN, COS TAN in my noggin.

I do not mean to imply that anyone needs to do those higher math functions without at least pencil and paper!  I can do simple Sin, Cos and Tans but not the more complex ones.  Still, you can do the basic math, and in normal every day life, that is all you need.  I am glad that we still have some young people who can do math without a calculator. 

Dont get me wrong, I use one.  Because it is expedient (like when balancing a check book).  But I could just as easily do without it, it would just take longer to balance.

Congrats to both you and Zoo!  And your College Profs that make you show your work.  You can still use a calculator, but if you dont know how to get the answer, you cant show your work!

on Sep 13, 2006
My math skills are good enough to keep my accounts balanced. I can do all the basic functions in my head, but why bother when I have a calculator in front of me. I agree that kids need to learn how to do things first, though. In senior high school, we were issued with calculators but often were told to put them away in class so we could learn properly first.
on Sep 13, 2006

why bother when I have a calculator in front of me.

When you can do the basics, yes, why bother!  And yes, learn that and then use them.  Oz has the right idea (or had?  You are not exactly a spring chicken, eh? )

on Sep 13, 2006
Math? you mean 1 + 2 = 3 , basic yes, multiplication, adds, subs, etc. More tech stuff no way. That was my weakest subject. I've tried teaching my kids multiplication the old way I learned in primary school. When they were younger it worked and they did it, now? NO way! I don't blame them for using calcs it helps them to process the numbers like Zoo said! Plus they still have to know what they are imputting otherwise it would be nonsense!
on Sep 14, 2006
You are not exactly a spring chicken, eh?


Cheeky bugger... To paraphrase you 'Pot, meet Kettle'
on Sep 14, 2006
Plus they still have to know what they are imputting otherwise it would be nonsense!


Gigo. Yet many students do just that. They dont know what they are putting in, only that the calculator never lies. And that is what I am against. Not calculators themselves as they are very useful. But the fact that students are not learning the basics before becoming addicted to them.
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