Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on September 2, 2006 By Dr Guy In Politics

This was in response to Davad, who has refused to repudiate, not appologize, but repudiate the racism of the part of the democrats that now claim to control the party.  I am linking to his article, but feel that my response, since it is so direct, will not last long.  SO here it is.

[davad70]I definitely see your point. I have no problem with stating that the views of a few nutjobs don't represent the view of the majority of Democrats. I just think it's silly for anyone to really think that that majority of any group, on either side of the aisle in this country, are bigots or anti-semitic. I find it silly that someone thinks it's necessary. There are nuts on both ends of the spectrum.

[Dr. Guy]Nice soliloquy.  However, you are still dancing around the central issue.  Quite simply, the nut jobs on the right are not taking credit for controlling the party, as the nut jobs on the left are.  You have some explaining to do.

One:  Moveon claims credit for defeating Lieberman.
Two: Moveon claims credit for anti-semitism.  Big time (shall I link?)
Three: you have not disavowed them.  No one is asking you to appologize (at least not most), but some are asking you to disavow them.  You have not.
Fourth: Given that you have not disavowed them, we can only assume you like the company you keep.
Fifth:  That is not a company that most choose to keep, including most conservatives.  However due to the lack of disavowel on the left, we can only conclude the same is not true of most liberals.

You are known by the company you keep.  And frankly, I chose not to keep company with the ilk that is on your side of the divide.  I have already PUBLICY disavowed the few (fewer than the liberal side apparently) scum on the right.  You have danced and dodged and bobbed and weaved and basically sided with the maxim "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".  And in that, since I have given you numerous occassions to repudiate them, and you have declined, I can only think that you will not, not that you cannot.

And in that, I must disagree with Larry.  For in that, you have proven to be less than honest, or moral in your feigned outrage.

And so I must agree with Moderatman.


Comments
on Sep 02, 2006
As I said on my thread, I have never deleted anyone's post on this site. You however, have deleted posts by me. I remember one time you were so low as to delete my post, but quoted a portion of it out of context to attempt to manipulate what I was saying.

I hesitate to say this, as you may take it as a compliment, but you never cease to amaze me. Not in a good way, BTW.
on Sep 02, 2006

Thank you doc.

 

on Sep 02, 2006
I don't get it. I think davad is being silly about the whole thing. Yes, there is a serious problem in the DNC leadership. But hey, that's true of the GOP leadership, too. Both are messed up almost beyond repair. All we can do is try to share our (hopefully) more open views and ideas, and hope that the national leadership can change.

Come on, davad, admit that they're idiotic. So's the GOP. It's not like you're saying something that's not true.
on Sep 02, 2006
The issue is not admitting that there are some idiots. I've readily admitted there are idiots an nuts on my side of the fence.

He said he wanted Democrats to apologize for the jew-haters.

Where are all the democrats on joe user? why Have I seen no apoligies? is it because dep in the joeuser democrats little hearts they too are as ANTI-SEMITIC as I have claimed?


So basically he's saying that if I don't apologize for a few jew haters, that I myself am a jew hater.
on Sep 02, 2006
So basically he's saying that if I don't apologize for a few jew haters, that I myself am a jew hater.


I do think that that's a line of thought that's being taken too far my ModMan . . . if that were true, we could ask of every republican an apology for the actions of Tom DeLay, otherwise they're embezzling criminals, too . . .
on Sep 02, 2006
Where are all the democrats on joe user? why Have I seen no apoligies? is it because dep in the joeuser democrats little hearts they too are as ANTI-SEMITIC as I have claimed?


Call me a purist, but I don't believe he stated anything. Those look like questions to me.

Wouldn't an appropriate response be 'As a Democrat who is not anti-Semitic, why would I apologize for the statements of obvious racists?' or something to that effect.

So basically he's saying that if I don't apologize for a few jew haters, that I myself am a jew hater.


davad70, it seems as if you may be a little thin-skinned for questions to be seen as accusations. Granted, those questions come across as provocative (which I'm sure was the intent), but your response, in my opinion, jumps to an unwarranted conclusion.
on Sep 02, 2006
davad70, it seems as if you may be a little thin-skinned for questions to be seen as accusations. Granted, those questions come across as provocative (which I'm sure was the intent), but your response, in my opinion, jumps to an unwarranted conclusion.


It's not a completely unwarranted conclusion. Look at ModMan's original line - "they too are anti-semetic as I have claimed"? Now, he might not be saying the whole party is anti-semetic, but for some reason or another, he has claimed that the Dems on JU are anti-semetic. I don't know why he says that, but he does. I think all he really wants is for us to say, "No, Elie, we're not anti-semetic, even if some in the party may or may not be."
on Sep 02, 2006
...he has claimed that the Dems on JU are anti-semetic.


No, he asked a question ... 'is it because dep in the joeuser democrats little hearts they too are as ANTI-SEMITIC as I have claimed?'

A question is not a statement or a claim. Apparently the question is however being taken as an accusation.

To me, it almost comes across as a rhetorical question ... from what I've seen of the users on JU, I can't think of any one here that would honestly answer that question with a 'yes' or that truly feels that way.

Only ModerateMan could say if an affirmative answer was expected.
on Sep 02, 2006
as I have claimed


Means he has claimed, in one spot or another. Think about the semantics.
on Sep 03, 2006
I suppose taken out of context as you have, any meaning could be inferred from a fragment posed as a statement. By definition, a question is a possibility with no resolution or 'truth' until answered.

Taking his question as a whole, I read his 'claim' to be the gist of his article; namely the racism on the part of the Democrats (MoveOn.org, etc) that now claim to control the party. Namely, are the JU Democrats as anti-semitic as I am claiming the MoveOn.org Democrats to be?

If by "one spot or another", you mean statements made elsewhere, I am not aware of those and, as evidenced by my reply, examined his questions in the context of his article.

As far as I have seen, the only claims of anti-semitism I have seen in his article have been directed to the 'far-left'.
on Sep 03, 2006
Here's a couple articles with his claims about anti-semitism from the left.

Anti-Semetic Left

Anti-Semetism from the left in Britain

There are other comments on the threads of others that spring to mind, but I can't find the links.

Now don't get me wrong, I like ModMan, but he does like to call the left anti-semitic. Thus, it is his claim, not just a question.


PS Sorry to hijack the thread, Guy. For the record: I was the first Democrat on this site to say how messed up and cowardly it was to treat Lieberman the way they did.
on Sep 05, 2006

While I"m not gonna get into all of this,  I have to say I loved all the differing views here and how well they were presented. 

on Sep 06, 2006

I thank everyone who responded, especially San Chonino.  But through 3 threads, and numerous comments, one thing stands out as a truism.  Davad70 refuses to disavow the loons on the left.  I have not asked for an appology from any one on the left for the behavior on their side, just as I would not appologize for the rantings of a David Duke.  But I have disavowed those on the right, and will continue to do so, with out equivocation.  Apparently that is not true of the hard core leftists.  Anyone who is not right, is alright by them, and that is what sickens me.

And davad, I have only deleted your posts when you decided to make it personal, and attack me, instead of my views on my blog.  And I will do that again should the occassion arise.  Quite simply, you have stopped amazing me a long time ago as you are as predictable as Col Klink, just not as arrogant.

What little respect I have had for you has disappeared with your latest dance step.