Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.

The article is a fascinating interview with a French Philosopher by the name of Bernard-Henri Lévy (BHL for short).  I had to do some research to find out if this guy was for real, or just a put up as he says somethings unheard of about America, from a Frenchman!

The author claims that BHL is one of only 7 Leading Frenchmen (there are no women) that do not hate America, and if this interview is any indication, it is apparent that he does not hate America, he just does not like all things American.  But what was most fascinating about the article was on his take of the roots of the French animosity towards America.  I have seen others sniping around the edges before, but he puts a whole new slant on it, and claims that not only did the animosity not start with the French Left, but with the right!  And why?  Jealousy!  Of what?

"In France, with the nation based on roots, on the idea of soil, on a common memory . . . the very existence of America is a mystery and a scandal." This is a particular source of pain, Mr. Lévy says, for "the right." Contrary to what is thought generally, he insists, anti-Americanism "migrated to the left, to the Communist Party, but its origins are on the extreme right." America gives the French right "nightmares," as the country is based on "a social contract. America proves that people can gather at a given moment and decide to form a nation, even if they come from different places." The "ghost that has haunted Europe for two centuries"--and which gives fuel, to this day, to anti-Americanism there--"is America's coming together as an act of will, of creed. It shows that there is an alternative to organic nations."

Yes, the French are Jealous of America for doing something heretofore never done before and only once since (he equates the creation of Israel to the same creed).  While France tries to lay claim to the first secular democratic state in modern times (we will forgo the argument of Ancient Greece), the simple fact that a nation was born not of a common heritage, but a common creed is unfathomable to the French, and something that most European nations tried to do by force for hundreds of years (only ending in the 90s with the fall of the USSR).

In other words, the very existence of the European Union is an attempt to duplicate what America did 230 years ago (and so far has been unsuccessful in accomplishing).

I found the whole article and his insights into America to be a fascinating read, and intend to check out some of his books to see what other insights he has.  But to discuss America in a calm and rational manner like that is truly what sets him apart from many of the detractors of this nation on the continent. 

He clearly states he is a leftist, and that he looked for the ultimate revolution to bring out the leftist utopia.  In another very revealing thought, he says the death of the left was not with the fall of the Soviet Union, but with the Cambodian Revolution.  For as he indicates, it was the first time that they revolution had "gone far enough", and the results are now readily apparent to all mankind.

That event seems to be a defining moment for him, when he turned from the far left of communism to a more moderating path of socialist.

All in all, it was a great read, and one I really enjoyed.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 26, 2006
Very good site! I like it! Thanks!
on Apr 26, 2006

Very good site! I like it! Thanks!

Stop by anytime!  Sorry for the hiccups.  As with all things man, it is not perfect.

on Apr 26, 2006
Very interesting article, Doc. The passionate love/hate relationship between France and the US is something that interests me too and I have written on it before.

You explain why you chose Bernard-Henri Lévy - the fact that he seems to not "snipe around the edges" but to "put a whole new slant" on the situation, and you are right that he gives a fascinating insight into what one section of French intellectuals feels about the US.

It would, however, have been just as possible to choose someone like Jean-François Revel, a French conservative (more accurately, 'classical liberal'), writer who has a very positive attitude to the US and offers a number of penetrating insights:

"The European Right’s anti-Americanism stems fundamentally from our continent’s loss during the twentieth century of its six-hundred-year leadership role."

"For this crowd [the Left], anti-Americanism was rational, since America was identified with capitalism, and capitalism with evil. What was less rational was their wholesale swallowing of the most flagrant and stupid lies about American society and foreign policy, and their careful spurning of accurate knowledge of the Communist systems".

"Today, by contrast, not only has Europe lost the ability to act alone on a global scale, but it is compelled in some degree to follow in the footsteps of the United States and lend support. It is in France that this loss — real or imaginary — of great-power status engenders the most bitterness."

"When I traveled to America in the early winter of 1969 ... I was astonished by evidence that everything Europeans were saying about the U.S. was false."

"I was also pleasantly surprised by the conversations I had with a wide range of Americans...Whereas in France people’s opinions were fairly predictable and tended to follow along lines laid down by their social role, what I heard in America was much more varied — and frequently unexpected. I realized that many more Americans than Europeans had formed their own opinions about matters — whether intelligent or idiotic is another question — rather than just parroting the received wisdom of their social milieu".

For more along the same lines you can click here: Link - Introduction to Anti-Americanism by Jean-François Revel.

Why do I mention this? Well, I think that there are (at least) two ways one could approach the US/France relationship. One way, which I would choose, (the 'liberal' way - in the original European sense of the word!) would be to see it as an ideological question. Yes, it is true that many French politicians, including their President, took a stance diametrically opposed to the US over the Iraq War, for example, but then so did many Americans! Other French thinkers (of which Revel is only one) understood what the US was doing and supported it.

The other way to approach the issue, which you have chosen, is to see it as a national difference - their nation against yours - and that is perfectly consistent with a traditional conservative approach, which as BHL rightly says is an approach based on "roots..., soil [and]... common memory".

The irony is, that this kind of traditional conservatism is a peculiarly European attitude and is a strange transplant in a nation (the USA) founded on fundamental liberal values. This contradiction is well expressed in your article where, on the one hand you claim that America is a nation "born not of a common heritage, but a common creed", while on the other hand framing the argument, not as a left/right issue or as a 'clash of creeds', or in some other ideological way but as a nationalist conflict of 'our nation against theirs'.

Anyway, bottom line an interesting and thought-provoking article about a hugely important issue.
on Apr 27, 2006
I join the others and say, good article.

IMHO, the simmering hatred and loathing of French people is because of constant misunderstanding between our domestic policies (no gun control and the death penalty? Mon dieu!) and our foreign policy, which both strongarms and undermines French interests. Yes, we have come to their rescue. Yes, they have also come to our rescue, albeit in the Revolutionary War... so we do have a shared heritage of cooperation.

... but before you quote Janet Jackson, "What have you done for me lately?", just remember that French antipathy towards the US is part of a larger effort to create the EU as the counter to US influence on the world stage. They have to take up a contrary position in order to counter us. We embargo Cuba, the EU sends an envoy. We sanction North Korea, the EU offers aid to prop up the Kim regime.

So just remember that France is not our problem.

If you really want to find an enemy, look no further than the EU as a whole.
on Apr 27, 2006

Anyway, bottom line an interesting and thought-provoking article about a hugely important issue.

Your whole post is worth quoting and commenting on.  I will read more of Jean-François Revel as I find him interesting as well.  I guess I liked BHL because of his antithesis to what one would thinks likes America, yet he does.

But as for the "Our Nation versus theirs".  That is prevalent in all politics, but not in individuals.  So yes, I look at the political nature of things before I see the individual.  When not confronting them on an individual basis.  For yes, we can talk to a Frenchman, one on one, and not see any or very few differences.  yet individuals are not masses.  There is a science that delves into why people act one way as an individual, and another as a mob/society (in the greater scheme of things, a society is just a civilized mob).

Thanks for the late read.  Your comments are always and greatly appreciated.

on Apr 27, 2006

just remember that French antipathy towards the US is part of a larger effort to create the EU as the counter to US influence on the world stage.

France is not our problem, just our foible.

As to this part, the killer there is they rejected it.  And I heard today, that China will pass them shortly as an ecomonic power.  America does not have to do a thing, they are their own worst enemy.

on Apr 27, 2006
Very interesting article, I've heard of Lévi by name at school but i didnt really take notice, I think we werent discussing America, but something boring, lol!

I find his opinion quite interesting. Jealousy. Uh-huh, it makes a lot of sense, it's a human feeling after all. the French are not as united as the American people. The basques (who are on the very French soil!!), The Corses, and all the colonies, they all want to be independant, lol!
on Apr 27, 2006
just remember that French antipathy towards the US is part of a larger effort to create the EU as the counter to US influence on the world stage.

I don't think this is true. Actually what you have described is a vision of the EU entertained by some in the French political class. You will find very little support for the idea of the EU as a "counter to US influence" in the UK, or the Scandinavian countries or any of the new Eastern European member states. The Germans, for all their disagreement over Iraq under Gerhard Schröder do not see the EU in this light either, nor no the Italians or Spanish or Irish....).

We sanction North Korea, the EU offers aid to prop up the Kim regime.

This is wrong. It assumes that 'contrary' policies are being pursued without consultation, whereas in fact consultations go on between the EU and US all the time. Even in diplomacy, there is such a thing as 'good cop, bad cop'. Right or wrong, the EU is doing nothing more than supporting South Korea's 'Sunshine Policy' towards the North. That's what allies do. What they don't do is always agree on every issue.

What you have demonstrated though is a propensity amongst American citizens (I don't if it's true of your politicians) to see enemies everywhere, even amongst erstwhile allies. Whether or not this is some syndrome connected to 9/11 and the current world situation is an interesting question.
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