Heaven forbid someone other than a Christian be offended!!!

Oh, sorry, I guess I can't say that these days.

Nature gently suggest that someone other than a member of the non-secular American majority be offended!!!

Nature gently suggest that someone other than a member of the non-secular American majority be offended!!!

And this is exactly what pisses in our Corn Flakes. Everyone can be offended by Christians and their beliefs, but not the other way around.
And us, the Christian Majority in America? Well, we're just supposed to stand around and allow our celebrations to be trampled. Why? Well, because of the separation between church and state and all that other nonsense that didn't really matter to anyone at all until about 1961 or 62, when Madwoman Murray O'Hare decided to make it an issue.
As I said on another thread, the country managed to make it almost 200 less-"enlightened" years before anyone thought to be offended and make an issue of it. Yet somehow, amazingly, we didn't implode or fall into theocracy.

Heaven forbid someone other than a Christian be offended!!! Oh, sorry, I guess I can't say that these days.

If you are going to talk about Handel's Messiah! Tell the truth!

And this is exactly what pisses in our Corn Flakes. Everyone can be offended by Christians and their beliefs, but not the other way around.

YES!

You are not supposed or obligated to stand for the Hallelujah Chorus!

The tradition came from the London premiere of the choral masterpiece.

From the BBC:
After his successful Dublin trip, Handel returned to London, and the first London performance of Messiah took place at the Covent Garden Theatre (now the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden) on 23 March, 1743, in the presence of the King, George II. When he heard the words, 'The kingdom of this world...' the King rose to his feet and remained standing until the end of the number. Various explanations have been put forward for this startling behaviour. It may have been in recognition that George's earthly kingdom was subservient to the Kingdom of Heaven. It may have been as a mark of awed tribute to the composer. Or it may have been that His Majesty had nodded off and jumped up startled by the loud music. As a matter of protocol, no-one could remain seated while the King was standing, so the whole audience stood throughout. The tradition remains to this day of the audience standing for the 'Hallelujah' chorus and is often observed even when there is no royalty present and even, it seems, among peoples who bear no allegiance to the British or indeed any monarch. On a later occasion, when the great composer Joseph Haydn heard the 'Hallelujah' Chorus in Westminster Abbey, he also stood with the rest of the audience, exclaiming with tears in his eyes 'He is the master of us all!'.

Most societies actually spell out in the program whether or not the audience is expected to stand during the movement.
What a weird tradition that is apparently dying out overseas. They're surprised that the Americans still do it!

Back to the actual topic, I am shocked that something so unabashedly Christian would have any PC generic holiday speech in the program at all.
I mean, come on. It's Handel's Messiah. Take Jesus out of Handel's Messiah, will you?!

ya know, dog bites man--unless its like a really huge dog and it doesnt just bite the guy, but eats him all gone--aint nothin close to news.

while reading the first and second paragraph, i really expected you were gonna reveal them horrible pagans had somehow managed to ban handel's creation.

but nooooooo. there i am, holdin my breath while hopin it's all some stupid misunderstanding, little realizing things have gone wayyyyy beyond there.

this is what has you all riled up?

Both an awe-inspiring holiday tradition and a memorable religious experience, Handel's Messiah returns

i don't believe i'm giving you too much more credit than you deserve by presuming you know as well as anyone over the age of 10 this one is doa.

what you may not know is that handel's messiah (along with many--in some cases all--of the works of mozart, beethoven, mendelssohn, liszt, and wagner) was not permitted to be played in catholic churches after being deliberately excluded from the liturgy.

wanna get upset about something real?

all that's needed is one good listen to mozart's 'ave verum corpus' knowing how long it was barred from the church to spark some justifiable outrage.

Did you know that Handel envisioned his masterpiedce as a piece appropriate for Lent and Easter?

A quote in our local paper recently by conductor Rohan Smith:

"It has retained its freshness over several hundred years because the music and subject matter resonates incredibly well this time of year."

Also worth noting is the fact that this piece is divided into three parts with the text for each based on the OT. The first part deals with salvation and the prophecy of the coming of the messiah which is of course the Christmas story. The second part with the "Hallelujah" chorus deals with the sacrifice and resurrection. The final part is about redemption.

Again, Doc, as Handel knew, Christ is throughout the OT and that's what he based his masterpiece on. He locked himself in his London room and began his quest to resurrect his career. After 24 days of sequester in Sept 1741 with little or no contact with the outside world he emerged with this piece and "Messiah" was born. During that time in sequester his concerned family and friends could hear frequent bursts of tears and fits off sobbing.

What I find interesting about this is that he literally hit rock bottom, his career in a shambles with debts mounting and prison looming for not being able to pay his creditors. How many stories do we hear that come out of situations like this?

Corrie Ten Boom said one time...."No matter how deep you go, God is deeper still."

You are not supposed or obligated to stand for the Hallelujah Chorus! The tradition came from the London premiere of the choral masterpiece.

YOu are not obligated, but due to tradition, most generally do.

Back to the actual topic, I am shocked that something so unabashedly Christian would have any PC generic holiday speech in the program at all. I mean, come on. It's Handel's Messiah. Take Jesus out of Handel's Messiah, will you?!

Sure!  Make it Handel's Historic Guy one!

They're surprised that the Americans still do it!

We are a fickle bunch aren't we?  Everyone stood!  Guess when we shucked the King and Queen, we stikll respected them.!

what you may not know is that handel's messiah (along with many--in some cases all--of the works of mozart, beethoven, mendelssohn, liszt, and wagner) was not permitted to be played in catholic churches after being deliberately excluded from the liturgy.

Wrong bacon breath!  It was played here in Richmond at St. Michael's CATHOLIC Church!  Do you try to be wrong, or work hard at it!

Oh, and did you have a religious experience?  Like you got a scab removed?  If you dont like this stuff, dont read it!  But dont sound off so stupidly!  Please!  This was not about any banning, just PC gone stupid!  Can you understand simple english?  Maybe not!

It is a CHRISTMAS piece!  Made and certified for that very reason. Now you want to argue with that? DO you need a rest?

Probably.

Again, Doc, as Handel knew, Christ is throughout the OT and that's what he based his masterpiece on. He locked himself in his London room and began his quest to resurrect his career.

First, I should have put this in religion just for you!

Second, no, he left London, as he hated it.  He wrote it in Ireland, and then came back. And yes, it could be either Easter or Christmas.  But Christmas tradition won.

Second, no, he left London, as he hated it. He wrote it in Ireland, and then came back. And yes, it could be either Easter or Christmas. But Christmas tradition won.

Well I had to check to see if it was London or Ireland and this is what I found:

This enduring masterpiece was written in 1741 in London, UK, in Handel's house at 25 Brook Street (now a Handel museum open to visitors), at tremendous speed, and was completed in the space of about three weeks. The texts were selected by Charles Jennens (1700 - 1773), who was a literary scholar and an editor of the plays of Shakespeare. They encapsulate the central beliefs of Christianity, from the Old Testament prophecies of the coming of the Messiah1 through to the Nativity and crucifixion of Jesus, the Resurrection and Ascension, and the belief in final victory over sin, death and decay. So although Messiah is often thought of these days as a Christmas piece, it was quite rightly originally associated with Easter.

Link

I didn't use this link in my earlier answer but it does verify much of what I said......so now I'm curious where you got Ireland?

remember I'm a junkyard dog with a bone............

i'm performing two classical pieces this "holiday season", one being Handel's Hallelujah Chorus, (which is all basically one giant tribute to God's omnipotence) and Mozart's Regina Coeli. there are many other "holiday" carols we will be singing about Christ and his birth, yet we students can't call out performance a christmas concert anymomre. it's a holiday concert. when my director realized our once christmas, but now, holiday concert was almost completely christian songs, she quickly threw in the Jewish "Erev Ba". just to even things out. that seems a little closer to what P.C. should be. we should include all the holidays, but i think people should still realize the fact that it's OK to have a Christmas concert. where i live there's probably about three orthodox Jewish people in the whole town. i can not wait to get out of the public school system, (year and a half 'til graduation), so i don't have to listen to all the p.c. garbage, and seperation of church and state from all of my teachers every year. also, i think it's funny how it's mostly those with no belief system at all, who all celebrate christmas, that are opposed to people calling things "christmas" celebrations.

I didn't use this link in my earlier answer but it does verify much of what I said......so now I'm curious where you got Ireland? remember I'm a junkyard dog with a bone............

I guess the Richmond Program will have to be corrected then!  That is where I got mine from.  Thanks for the correction.