Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on March 29, 2011 By Dr Guy In Current Events

PETA along with others would love for all people to forgo a diet of animals.  They think, preach, and advocate that man can live by bread alone.  Some even forgo animal by-products (that do not harm the animal, but instead are derived from them such as milk and cheese and chicken eggs). 

The problem is that man is not an herbivore.  Evolution has made some animals carnivores, some animals herbivores and some animals omnivores.  Man is the latter.  In order to sustain a healthy body, man has to ingest all food groups.  Or get sustenance from artificial means to supplement what he eliminates.

But do not tell that to the Vegans.  The most radical of the herbivore sect, they eschew anything to do with animals.  It has long been known that in order to exist on a Vegan diet, artificial vitamins must be taken.  The only natural source of B-12 is animals, and it is one of the essential vitamins for man.

Now, in France, a couple is being charged with murdering their child.  The reason?  The parents refused to eat any animals or animal by-products and apparently were ignorant of the vitamin deficiency issue.  in addition, they only allowed their baby breast milk for the 11 months of her life.  The child died of Vitamin A and B12 deficiency.

It is no longer a "life style choice".  It has now become a death method choice.  Perhaps these parents were just ignorant - and willing believers in a lie propagated by PETA and their ilk.  Or perhaps they were just another demented sect that feels the bottom of the evolutionary chain is man. 

Whatever reason, they killed their child due to a dangerous mindset that is apparently in vogue for the leisure class.  They want us to remove ourselves from nature since we are destroying it, not realizing that we are a part of it. 

A life lesson. Especially given a tangential religion out there - Anthropogenic Global Warming - Global Climate Change - Global Climate Disruption.

EDIT: responsible veganism - acknowledging that there are issues with eschewing any animal product - is not the issue.  But when you get zealots involved, that is where the danger comes in.  Texas Wahine offers this Qualifier which I think will temper this post and emphasize that it is about extremism, not mainstreamism.

 

Texas Wahine
I realize I am being repetitive, but I believe this is an important message (obviously not for the men on this thread, as I don't believe any of you are currently breastfeeding, , but for moms who may come across this thread in the future): Breastmilk is the optimal food for babies. Vegan moms can and should breastfeed. Vegan moms should keep an eye on their diets and monitor their infant's growth and health (as should all moms). Breastmilk can be complete nutrition for an infant all the way up to her first birthday. If a vegan mom is unwilling to feed herself appropriately, she should place her infant on soy formula, however, this is not as good a choice as a proper diet for mom and breastfeeding.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 04, 2011

Texas Wahine
(the parents were French, after all, not American).

France has PETA too, but you are technically correct.  This incident was not attributed to PETA.  However, their modus operandi can lead to the same tragedies due to their unbending and mindless adherence to a principal that they do not always follow themselves.

Texas Wahine
I just want to be clear that veganism itself nor delayed introduction of solids are problematic for most breastfeeding moms.

Agreed - nor was that ever alleged.  What was stated and alleged was that a pure vegan (not vegetarian) diet by itself is insufficient for man to exist on.  I am a very strong proponent of breast feeding (although I think doing so after the first year, and definitely after the 5th years is extreme), and have no problems with those who want to eschew meat.  As long as they are not lead down a primrose path of deception of "meat" is not necessary.  If educated correctly about the vitamins a body needs, and that includes the ones that come from meat, they can live a healthy and happy life. When they are indoctrinated with the mantra of "Animals are friends, not food" (Sorry Nemo), then the indoctrinators are at fault for propagating a lie.

Texas Wahine
Some vegan moms prefer soy based formula for their infants because they believe human milk to be an "animal product" w

That is the extremism I speak of.  Yes it is indeed animal based since we are animals, but all mammals breast feed!  it is natural and a part of nature and the way our physiology developed over eons.  It is pure stupidity to look at it as some type of abnormal substance that must be shunned.

Texas Wahine
Both vitamin A and B12 are obtainable through vegan sources such as nutritional yeast (B12) and orange and green veggies (Vitamin A).

Yeast is an animal.

Texas Wahine
What is really important to me in this discussion, is making it clear that vegan moms can breastfeed and that exclusively breastfeeding beyond a year is absolutely healthy for many babies.

I do not argue the point, nor should this article be taken as such.

Texas Wahine
I realize I am being repetitive, but I believe this is an important message (obviously not for the men on this thread, as I don't believe any of you are currently breastfeeding, , but for moms who may come across this thread in the future): Breastmilk is the optimal food for babies. Vegan moms can and should breastfeed. Vegan moms should keep an eye on their diets and monitor their infant's growth and health (as should all moms). Breastmilk can be complete nutrition for an infant all the way up to her first birthday. If a vegan mom is unwilling to feed herself appropriately, she should place her infant on soy formula, however, this is not as good a choice as a proper diet for mom and breastfeeding.

As a clarifier, I will post this part of your comment in the original article. 

on Apr 04, 2011

You think breastfeeding past 1 year is extreme?  I hope I am misunderstanding you.  

I don't think we disagree as much on this topic as it may seem.  I don't have a problem with vegan lifestyles -- it's not for me, but I don't think it is a perversion or inherently unhealthy.  It's certainly more challenging to maintain good nutrition on a vegan diet than on even a vegetarian diet but I think most of us could eat more nutritiously than we do anyway.

I do agree that it's extreme to choose not to feed a human infant human milk from his or her mother.  I personally think the reasoning behind that is wonky but so far I have not been selected to choose what other people can or cannot feed their kids.  

Re: nutritional yeast, it's a fungus (considered vegan) 

Although I am not happy about the impetus for your article (the baby's death), this is a very interesting topic and I am enjoying discussing it with you.

on Apr 04, 2011

Texas Wahine
nutritional yeast, it's a fungus

Quite correct.

As to the breastfeeding, most pediatricians these days recommend it for at least a year as there are demonstrable long term physical and emotional health benefits. A healthy baby will eventually lose the need/desire on their own and essentially wean themselves. I have never thought feeding an infant cow's milk was a good idea.

on Apr 04, 2011

I just saw that I said fortified cereal includes B12 from animal sources.  That is a typo -- it should read non-animal sources.

Re: breastfeeding

I won't say too much on this topic without the go ahead from you Dr. Guy since it's a slight departure from your original topic (although if you are open to my sharing information relevant to what we've discussed in regards to breastfeeding, I am more than willing to do so) however, as Mason as said, the health organizations and medical professionals recommend breastfeeding a minimum of 1 year and continuing as long as mutually desired by mother and child (AAP).  WHO's recommendation is up to two years and beyond.  

Fact sheet on the benefits of breastfeeding beyond the first year of life:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html

MasonM
I have never thought feeding an infant cow's milk was a good idea.

Infants have what is known as an "open gut" and breastmilk serves and immunological function, as the 50+ known antibodies coat the intestines.  During infancy the "open gut" allows intact macromolecules into the bloodstream (great for allowing antibodies from breastmilk IN), which means introducing cow's milk during this early time way create an allergic reaction (since the large proteins can pass into the bloodstream).

Additionally, cow's milk irritates the digestive tract and little ones who consume too much milk (cow's milk is not recommended during the first year, and should be limited to 2 cups thereafter) are at risk for issues with iron absorption and anemia.  

 

 

 

on Apr 05, 2011

Texas Wahine
obviously not for the men on this thread, as I don't believe any of you are currently breastfeeding,

No but you make a good case. Now if only I can talk the wife into it, as I'm a hungry boy!

Kidding aside, Good info TW, you should do an article on it so comes up in web searches. I believe even non-vegan parents would find the information formative.

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