Debate, and discuss, just dont Bore me.
Published on March 1, 2006 By Dr Guy In Current Events

Disclaimer:  The title is not my opinion, but that of the object of the linked article.

As some of you know, I have been on vacation.  A sort of working vacation, but one where I basically treated the computer as a plague.  However since I was 3 hours away from home, I often woke up early (like at 4am), and did catch Good Morning America.  This article is based upon one such morning that I decided had to be responded to.

Back in the early 60s, Betty Friedan gave us the Feminine Mystique and supposedly freed women from the shackles of being a stay at home mother and becoming a career woman.  Women were told that they could have it all, a Career, and a family.  This gave rise to the term super mom, the one glamorized in the 70s commercials of "Bringing home the bacon, frying it up in the pan.".  Some women managed to do both, but many burned out, and even others found that a career outside of the house was not what they wanted.

And so in the 80s and then into the 90s, there was a snap back.  Where women yelled "enough", and demanded that a stay at home mother had as much dignity, if not more so, than a career woman.  Motherhood was again looked at as a noble and very demanding job.  This was epitomized by the backlash against Hillary Clinton in the 92 campaign when she trashed the stay at home moms (which she then reversed herself and did her Betty Crocker imitation to placate that constituency).

But now comes a point hat that not only says you can have it both, but you are wrong if you dont!  Linda Hirshman, herself a Career woman/mom does not pussy foot around as she says that stay at home moms are just plain wrong.

While I will be the first to defend any woman who wants both, and jump to their defense in times of attack, I am also going to be one of the first to say that Linda Hirshman is full of number 2!  For those like her that want it, go for it!  But do not say that those who dont want it are wrong!  No, those who do not want it, and can afford it, they are 100% right!  For while Hirshman may be a good mother, it is doubtful she saw her babies first steps, first tooth first, or heard their first words. 

The thing about children is that they are not little adults.  Every day to them is a new experience for both parents and the child.  And those first will never come again.  If you have not seen your sister in a year, when you do see her again, she will probably look the same and sound the same.  Not so a child.  Every year they change so much that without a score card, you would not know they were the same person.

And women, and men, that want to be there for the firsts.  To kiss the boo boos, to comfort the frightened child, to watch a new person taking shape.  There is nothing greater in life than that, to know you are shaping a new generation (and nothing more frightening either I might add).  And for those that chose to do it first hand, there is nothing more noble or hard.They sacrifice financially.  But that is their choice, and one I fully support and admire.

To say they are wrong and dismiss them out of hand is a blindness and arrogance that defies description.  And one that I have nothing but contempt for the utterer for.  Ms. Hirshman, enjoy your dual careers, but try looking at the 3 fingers pointing at you when you go pointing fingers.  You will find the source of your problems where the 3 point, not where the one is pointing.


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Mar 01, 2006
And there you have it! The female supremacist! And to think, I'm accused of being a bigot because I point out there's a difference between a feminist and a female supremacist!
on Mar 01, 2006
I've always wondered why people can call it a "balance" between being a parent and a working adult, yet then think nothing of spending 70-80 hours a week at work, but only 2 or 3 with their kids.

A single paycheck in a 2 parent home is almost always by choice. It requires a lot of sacrifices, frugility and tough choices. However, for those who choose it because they are putting their kids' needs over financial security... I Applaud You!!

For families who legitimately do need both parents to be working (or for single parent homes whose only other choice would be not working at all), you are apparently doing the best you can with what you have, and I also applaud you for not just giving up and going on welfare!

Most people I know though, who insist they need two paychecks, seem to "need" it more to support a lifestyle than to support their family.
on Mar 01, 2006
As a stay at home Mom who went to work only when the kids were all in school fulltime (mother's hours)I am now reaping the benefits that many of these women will never know.

I wouldn't have traded seeing my children's firsts for anything that the business world had to offer me. It was just not worth it for me. Money cannot replace my time with my kids.

I was the one who taught them how to walk. I was the one that spent hours in the afternoon teaching them all how to ride a bike. I was the one on the floor playing with legos and teaching them how to build a mansion. I was the one that read to them every night until they reached their early teens. I was the one that brought them to driver's ed and then for their road test. I was the one that went to all their sporting events. I was the one who made sure they could swim by taking them to the beach almost every day in the summer. They never got formal lessons because they didn't need to.

From what I understand there are alot of bitter women now in their 50's and 60's that are not too happy that they listened to the likes of Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedman in those early years. Especially after Gloria finally married a few years ago after saying for many times that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle
on Mar 01, 2006

And there you have it! The female supremacist! And to think, I'm accused of being a bigot because I point out there's a difference between a feminist and a female supremacist!

No, the ones that are wrong are those that call you a bigot.  I doubt that many ladies, feminist or women here at JU would call you that.  Probably for the reason they agree with you, as do I.

on Mar 01, 2006

I choose to stay home.  I choose to take these few years of my life and invest them in my kids full time.


I don't like it when moms are pitted against each other though.  I have even done it myself~coughs~


This job is hard enough without me telling someone else how to parent.

on Mar 01, 2006
Anyone who makes a blanket statement about what is right or wrong is ignorant and foolish. There is no right answer for all families. Each family has to deal with their own set of challenges. They have to decide what is best for their own unique situation.

I see women judged on both sides. I get looked down upon by working moms and working moms get judged by stay-at-home moms. What good does it do to judge another? If you are proud of the choices you make, why the need to put someone else's choices down?

I think Ms. Hirshman must be feeding some kind of insecurity she has. I personally feel priviledged to be able to stay at home with my kids. I know plenty of moms who would genuinely go out of their minds if they were home with their kids all the time. I don't fault them for that.

Some moms need to get the fulfillment from their career in order to be better parents. Many simply need the income. How can anyone judge that as right or wrong?

I sometimes feel I would get more personal validity and feeling of accomplishment if I had a career outside of the home. I wouldn't trade the benefits of being home for that though. I don't envy the moms who have to get the kids packed up early in the morning to get off to the daycare. My kids don't catch whatever plague is going around daycare and they never got the chance to learn bad behaviors from the other kids in daycare either.

There is a sense of feeling trapped sometimes as a stay-at-home mom. I don't have any marketable skills anymore. If I am sick, I don't get a day off. I am in my work place all day every day. But again, I tend to dwell on the enormous benefits and that is what makes me a happy stay-at-home mom. I can see how it may not translate to happiness for many though.

Parents of all kinds have difficult and very important jobs. We should all just stick to doing the best job we can and not spend any energy on judging how others are going about the same task.
on Mar 01, 2006

A single paycheck in a 2 parent home is almost always by choice. It requires a lot of sacrifices, frugility and tough choices. However, for those who choose it because they are putting their kids' needs over financial security... I Applaud You!!

For families who legitimately do need both parents to be working (or for single parent homes whose only other choice would be not working at all), you are apparently doing the best you can with what you have, and I also applaud you for not just giving up and going on welfare!

Exactly!  Let each decide what is best for their situation, but dont pre judge them with no facts other than outward appearances!

on Mar 01, 2006

I didn't have kids so that the daycare center or the sitter could raise them.  I had kids and then made the choice to stay home.  Yes, we could have used the extra income, in fact we were flat broke a lot of the time, and when we did have a little extra cash we made it go further by thrift shopping and yard sale-ing.  But you know what?  We were happy.  We ARE happy.  We've got three kids who are turning out to be excellent human beings, and I think that some of that has to do with my being home with them.  Even now that they're all in school, I still won't take a job that doesn't allow me to be home when they come home in the afternoon.  I don't like the thought of them coming home to an empty house, and besdies, it would upset our afternoon ritual (I have a pot of tea made and we all have a cup and talk about their school day.  Dinner time is family time, tea time is my time with them).

Yes, women can have a career and children AT THE SAME TIME, but at a cost.  I simply felt like the cost was too high, so I made the choice to stay home.  My career will come about in the next couple of years - AFTER my kids no longer demand as much of my time and attention - and even then, if they needed me, if my working was detrimental to them or our family in any way, I wouldn't think twice about quitting. 

 

on Mar 01, 2006

From what I understand there are alot of bitter women now in their 50's and 60's that are not too happy that they listened to the likes of Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedman in those early years

There are a lot of working fathers that are jealous of you as well, but our role was to earn the bread so that at least one of us could be there for the firsts!  Thank you for that post.

on Mar 01, 2006

I choose to stay home. I choose to take these few years of my life and invest them in my kids full time.

I know.  When I saw this, I sent myself an email with the title "Tova is going to feast on this one".  I was thinking of you and your complete comfort with your decision.  Which I do applaud.

For those who want a career?  Fine!  Just dont step on others to get there.

on Mar 01, 2006

I choose to stay home. I choose to take these few years of my life and invest them in my kids full time.

I know.  When I saw this, I sent myself an email with the title "Tova is going to feast on this one".  I was thinking of you and your complete comfort with your decision.  Which I do applaud.

For those who want a career?  Fine!  Just dont step on others to get there.

on Mar 01, 2006
What a piece of filth. It's tempting to call the woman in question an insect for insulting reasons, but the comparison is apt, regardless. I think people like her see our culture as some damned ant hill, and her lofty sense of obligation and duty to society is just an excuse for her need to impose her asinine values on the rest of us.

No doubt a stay-at-home dad would be a lazy bum to this... person. If she wants to deem stay-at-home parents as having "lesser lives", then she's assuming her standard of life is objectively better. This is just the mirror of the ultra-conservative chauvinist pigs that think their wives shouldn't speak unless spoken to. Both are imposing their standards on other people, and both believe that unless you do what they say you are in the wrong.
on Mar 01, 2006

Anyone who makes a blanket statement about what is right or wrong is ignorant and foolish. There is no right answer for all families. Each family has to deal with their own set of challenges. They have to decide what is best for their own unique situation.

I see women judged on both sides. I get looked down upon by working moms and working moms get judged by stay-at-home moms. What good does it do to judge another? If you are proud of the choices you make, why the need to put someone else's choices down?

I think Ms. Hirshman must be feeding some kind of insecurity she has. I personally feel priviledged to be able to stay at home with my kids. I know plenty of moms who would genuinely go out of their minds if they were home with their kids all the time. I don't fault them for that.

That is why you are the blog mom!  Have a cookie on me, that is an outstanding, and better than mine, statement of the truth!

on Mar 01, 2006

Yes, women can have a career and children AT THE SAME TIME, but at a cost. I simply felt like the cost was too high, so I made the choice to stay home. My career will come about in the next couple of years - AFTER my kids no longer demand as much of my time and attention - and even then, if they needed me, if my working was detrimental to them or our family in any way, I wouldn't think twice about quitting.

You should mail Hirshman with that paragraph!  That says it all!  Very well stated.

on Mar 01, 2006

What a piece of filth. It's tempting to call the woman in question an insect for insulting reasons, but the comparison is apt, regardless. I think people like her see our culture as some damned ant hill, and her lofty sense of obligation and duty to society is just an excuse for her need to impose her asinine values on the rest of us.

No doubt a stay-at-home dad would be a lazy bum to this... person

Baker is back!  yes!  I actually know a stay at home dad.  I wish I could have been at times!

2 Pages1 2